Back here again, but now with The BIG ONE!!

Hi there!

Long time no see. Some time ago I came here showing you a Pantera X275 in black. You all guys answered all my questions and I appreciate so much your attention and info about this amazing guitar.

Like some of you I was in the hunt of a X390 in Caspian Blue. I´m a devoted Trevor Rabin fan and sice I´ve discovered which guitar he uses it became an obsession to catch one. And then the stories about this guitar woke me up to reality: only 96 units made and so rare to spot.

Well, it´s about time and I´ve scored the Jackpot!

Let me introduce to you all my X390 in Caspian Blue!

[url=https://freeimage.host/i/dj5cDzJ][img]https://iili.io/dj5cDzJ.md.jpg[/img][/url]

It also came with its original hardcase! Win win!

But if you take a closer look to the picture, you will spot 3 holes in the body...

[img]<a href=[/img][img]https://iili.io/dj5c60B.md.jpg[/img]

And the last one...

[img]<a href=[/img][img]https://iili.io/dj5csJ1.md.jpg[/img]

It seems that their owner fitted some MIDI pickup system on the guitar, but didn´t know about the existence of double-sided adhesive tape.

Just a cosmetic issue. Can be fixed and it will be for sure.

I´ve played for some hours this ferocious monster. I´m in love with my X275, but this is another level. It spits true fire!

But I got some issues with the bridge pickup. In comparison to the neck pickup, the bridge sounds lower in volume and a bit (just a bit ) dull and... not dark, but not so defined in middle-high frequencies. I´ve asked to a friend who knows really well those guitars and told me that could be a loss of the magnet´s "force" of the pickup. My friend also told me that the neck and the bridge are the same pickup.

I want to take my guitar to the best luthier I can find near, and ask him to fix the holes, clean all including hardware and electronics, and see what´s happening with the bridge pickup.

However, I´m so HAPPY. 22 years in the hunt and now EXCALIBUR is now in my hands!

Cheers and big hugs to you all!!!

She's a beauty, congratulations and thanks for sharing! 

Hope you get the pickup problem sorted.

Barry wrote:She's a beauty, congratulations and thanks for sharing! 

Hope you get the pickup problem sorted.

Thank you so much Barry.

I´m a bit concerned about the bridge pickup. I was digging a bit in some sections of the forum and I found the post about de MMK pickups. Didn´t know about the huge amount of failures in the coils! And I´m guessing that finding an original replacement pickup would be quite tricky.

I´m wondering... If I didn´t find any MMK original spare pickup for my Pantera... Wich pickups could do the work?

Today my brother is coming home to play de Pantera. He has a great ear and knows the gear too. We´ll discuss about it.

Cheers!

Yeah, unfortunately given the age of the MMK45's and the fact that they were not potted, they are prone to "coil rot", a failure/break in the winding somewhere. (ask me how I know )

If you measure the resistance with an ohm meter you can confirm whether you have both coils working or not. '45s typically read around 11-14KΩ If you see 5-7KΩ that would indicate one coil is not working.

Have a look at this post for directions: LINK

As for replacements the sky's the limit. The 45's (ceramic) were patterned after the diMarzio Super Distortions of the day so let that be your guide. I have personally replaced them with GFS Crunchy Pats (ceramic) and Wilkinson WHHBN (Alnico5) or MWHBB (ceramic)

congrats on finding your Excalibur! welcome to the club

the Pantera X390's were fitted out with MMK75's originally.

the catalog calls them OFC pickups, which stands for Oxygen Free Copper. OFC is very slightly more conductive than regular copper(like about 1% or 2%). it seems like a marketing gimmick to me.

no idea why one pickup would be weaker than the other.
you could adjust how close the pickup is to the strings
you might also check that the connections are good and solid

gittarasaurus wrote:congrats on finding your Excalibur! welcome to the club

the Pantera X390's were fitted out with MMK75's originally.

the catalog calls them OFC pickups, which stands for Oxygen Free Copper. OFC is very slightly more conductive than regular copper(like about 1% or 2%). it seems like a marketing gimmick to me.

no idea why one pickup would be weaker than the other.
you could adjust how close the pickup is to the strings
you might also check that the connections are good and solid

Hey gittasaurus! Thank you so much!

In the first tests the pickups where quite high, alomost touching the pickups. I´ve lowered down just a bit. And and in clean sounds something didn´t work for me. I´ll do my best describing it.

The neck pickup sounded big and a bit dull on the low frequencies. Both pickups sounded saggy, harsh and a bit honky in the middle-high frequencies, and the bridge delivered such an unpleasant tone with more harsh tone, lacking bass and mid-high sparkling frequencies.

I tried changing the pickup height and I lowered at the same height than the pickup rings. Clean sounds are more gentle now, but the sound feels unbalanced. Also there´s some noticeable volume drop in the bridge pickup.

So this is it:  These pickups feels old and sounds not as good as I´ve expected.

I´ll dig more this weekend: I will check the pickup´s backplate looking for the MMK stamp. Got zero knowledge in electronics and have no tester nor any electical devices at hand. I hope there´s something wrong about the internal loom/cable connections on the electronics´s cavity... Who knows!

See you and thanks for your advices!

Thanks for the correction Mike.

KNM, the general information I gave on testing is still valid for your 75's. It will quickly indicate if there is an output problem in the pickup itself.

You mentioned that it sounds "honky" in the mid position.
At the risk of stating the obvious, the bridge pickup tone control is a push/pull for phase reverse. That will give a sound like you're describing.

The neck tone control is also a push/pull for coil tap. which can also drop the volume.

Have you checked that these controls are functioning correctly, maybe it needs a squirt or two of contact cleaner?

Barry wrote:Thanks for the correction Mike.

KNM, the general information I gave on testing is still valid for your 75's. It will quickly indicate if there is an output problem in the pickup itself.

You mentioned that it sounds "honky" in the mid position.
At the risk of stating the obvious, the bridge pickup tone control is a push/pull for phase reverse. That will give a sound like you're describing.

The neck tone control is also a push/pull for coil tap. which can also drop the volume.

Have you checked that these controls are functioning correctly, maybe it needs a squirt or two of contact cleaner?

It was my fault Barry. Don't worry. The sounds I tried to describe was with the full pickups. In the middle possition: Let's say the sound is more hollow than honky.
My sloppy English is about 75% self taught and trying to describe something so subjective as sounds is tricky for me. The push-pulls pots do their work properly.

Cheers!!

Is there any evidence the 45s were based on the super distortion? They are in no way similar in construction except the magnet type. Can someone please point to a primary source where this is confirmed? I see it repeated often, but the specs and construction are totally different (except the aforementioned magnet).

I don't have a definitive reference handy but I suspect it may have come from Tom Presley at some point??

In any event, the comparison is that the 45's were based on DiMarzio SD's NOT that they were reversed engineered or cloned. ie, the tonal output and general characteristics offered a similar playing experience combined with considerable power!

DiMarzio SD's got their start when they were originally introduced to the Japanese guitar scene and were installed in a lot of brands destined for overseas markets. It's where their excellent reputation was born. So, naturally Japanese makers like Maxxon and Matsumoku wanted to offer their own version.

But that's the thing, they're not similar in output or in tone. 45s don't have the lower mid thickness of the SD.

I think it's a load of hooey myself.

Perhaps it's a subjective thing.

Most '45 users like them as an all purpose pup, and the only complaint I have heard is that they are a bit "muddy" on the bottom end for some folks.

For other people that might translate to your "lower mid thickness" description.

I guess that's part of my point.

It's regurgitated so often that the 45 is 'based on' the super distortion despite having (next to) nothing in common. In my own research, and through asking others, I've never found a primary source of evidence corroborating the idea, yet it's still parroted.

They don't sound the same, look the same, and they're constructed differently, even though Matsumoku could clearly just replicate it 100% if that was their desire.

I think it needs to be quashed. The evidence against is clear. The evidence for is non-existent outside of forum guys repeating it... Which isn't any evidence at all. They don't even sound similar.

Anyway. As you were.

Good morning.

Thanks to 1point5 for your comments. The pickup "mystique" is always a hot topic to us guitarists. And the lack of precise info on these pickups is always frustrating.

Speaking of wich, look here...




There you have it. A couple of 75s. I´ve noticed the katakana lettering on both pickups. Is there anybody here who figured out what means? I´ll figure it out anyway!

Last weekend I did a lot of testing with the pickups´s height, and I´m getting close to a good spot to my taste. Nevertheless bridge pickup sounds harsh, cutting and pretty high (freq speaking and in clean tones) and neck pickup a bit duller due to lack of middle freqs, but with a beautiful top end.


Are this their true sound? I´ve seen a bunch of times the video on YouTube of this guy with the white Pantera. Mine sound close, but not so bold on the mid freqs than the video.

BTW, a last picture that concerned me for some time this weekend. Is the lower section of the neck pickup cavity when you can see the woodcut. Here...



Now that I´m looking to this pic properly on the PC I´m thinking this is true maple, but at first sight I was mad. To my eyes looked like a bunch of laminated cardboard!

It was an intense weekend. Please let´s keep talking about this! I love to learn with you guys.

See ya!

last picture that concerned me for some time this weekend. Is the lower section of the neck pickup cavity when you can see the woodcut. Here...

That looks to me to have been shaped using some sort of rotary rasp instead of a cutting bit. Kind of messy for Matsumoku but perhaps it was the only tool bit available at the time?  

Have you tested the output of your pickups using the method I referenced in post #4? That will at least confirm that they are operating within expected specifications and eliminate them as a problem source. The tone your are describing does not sound like what '75 owners typically say about these pups.
It will also respond to your coil cut and phase reverse switches and confirm their operation too.

In the end if all is operating well then it comes down to personal preference and trying to match the tone you're hearing in your head.

Hi there!

I did some research on the katakana lettering on the pickups. The kanjis looks like those: 

ロ ウ

They are pronounced "RO" and "U".

I´ve used a couple of translators and one gave me an interesting result. DeepL, one of the best translators online, say that this characters can be translated as "(B) C".

I´ve spent some time also on the forums revisiting some of the Tom Presley answers and stories about the SLM days back in time and I´d love to ask Tom some questions about the design of the Pantera and their relationship with Trevor Rabin during the process.

And about my Pantera. I guess the previous may swapped the pickups, changin neck for bridge. Why? The pickup cover of the neck pickup is a bit erased and I don´t think that happened by playing so much time strumming in the last frets...



Just my thoguhts! See ya!

KNM wrote:. . . And about my Pantera. I guess the previous may swapped the pickups, changin neck for bridge. Why? The pickup cover of the neck pickup is a bit erased and I don´t think that happened by playing so much time strumming in the last frets...

Just my thoguhts! See ya!

--> If you had tested the DC resistance of the pickups as I have said several times now, you will have an accurate picture of the state of them rather than speculating.

I know Barry, but got not multimeter and zero electronic experience. I just can speculate because I don't know when I could bring the guitar to a good luthier here around. I hate to depend on family and/or Friends because of my agoraphobia.

Time Will tell.

Fair enough.
Maybe this is a good opportunity to learn something new?

It's not difficult to do, and you can pick up an inexpensive plastic multi-meter just about anywhere online, it's a very handy tool to have.

Barry wrote:Fair enough.
Maybe this is a good opportunity to learn something new?

It's not difficult to do, and you can pick up an inexpensive plastic multi-meter just about anywhere online, it's a very handy tool to have.

You´re absolutely right. I´ll check it out after work!

Firstly… 75s are very, very good indeed - I have them in my APII PE-Supra, and value them highly, to the point where if I have lead lines to play, then the Supra generally gets the nod.
I have many types of pickup to choose from; strat, superstrat, Fender style P90s, Gibson style P90s, lipsticks, MMK45s, MMk53s, PAF style h/bs et al, et al; some OEM but most are swapped in, for example, my Westone Corsair has been set up specifically for my ‘touch’, and has boutique pickups onboard; Mr Glynns tele at the neck, strat in the middle and a Filtertron clone in the bridge, and it gets most of the work I have for a guitar - I am not, however, convinced that the extra money paid for boutique gear is money well spent! 
My GFS lipsticks and Toneriders seem just fine, admittedly at less than stage volumes, and I’m more than happy with my Mr Glynns pickups…

I agree that there is an awful lot of hype around pickups, not all of which is true, or even correct!! Let your ears lead you…