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Post by Racing Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:13 pm

Going to take a look at one of these babies come tomorrow night.
Any advice on what when and how?

OEM HSC is missing,but otherwise seems in good nick apart from being dirty and dusty.
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Post by Guest Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:33 pm

Hello Racing and welcome! Pantera X300 Icon_smile

Firstly, do you have any photos or can you post some when you collect the guitar?

Secondly, these are fantastic guitars and a dream to play - I have one! I'm sure you won't be disappointed providing that it is all original and hasn't been modified in any way. Which model is it by the way, the one with two knobs or the single knob version? You will find full details of the Pantera at westone.info. (See link in the Main Website). I hope this helps.

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Post by Barry Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:51 am

Hey Jesper, welcome to the other Mats site, great to have you here! Pantera X300 Icon_cheers

Sorry, I don't own a Pantera...yet...just 4 Spectrums, a Concord, and a Thunder, so I can't offer you much advice about this one. It won't be as fantastic as your Masterpieces, but it should be a smooth little rocker nevertheless! Pantera X300 Icon_lol

Grab it and have some fun! Pantera X300 Icon_basketball

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Post by corsair Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:35 pm

Barry wrote: It won't be as fantastic as your Masterpieces,

Oi!!! That's seditious talk, my friend - I don't really like either the Pantera or the PE but I would hazard a guess and say the Pantera would be up there.... Pantera X300 Icon_lol
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Post by Barry Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:46 pm

corsair wrote:
Barry wrote: It won't be as fantastic as your Masterpieces,

Oi!!! That's seditious talk, my friend - I don't really like either the Pantera or the PE but I would hazard a guess and say the Pantera would be up there.... Pantera X300 Icon_lol
Up where, exactly, the shelf? Pantera X300 Icon_clown
I'd take a PE Masterpiece any day, wif boof greedy hands!! Pantera X300 Icon_porc

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Post by corsair Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:19 pm

Pantera X300 Icon_lol ... from what I've seen and can gather, the Panteras were pretty damn good, in both quality and sound. AND they had a famous endorser.. so there!! Pantera X300 Icon_tongue
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Post by Racing Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:55 am

Sorry to say the deal went sour out of some reason that´s beyond me at least.
Everything was set n done when the seller told me he wouldn´t sell it to me as the guitar had electric issues.
Told him i didn´t really mind and that i´m competent to sort issues like that out.
No go though,and what pisses me off is that this bloke obviously thought it was a good idea to waste my time to his liking.
Goes to show you i guess,but i for one have a REALLY hard time with people that dont stand by their words.

Not the end of the world as more´ll show up down the road.
As some of you guys know Uncle Mats are rather plentiful around these pts.

Polyanna.
It was one of the early ones with volume pot only and finished in PP.
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Post by Racing Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:23 pm

Some people need a reality check...cause early this morning the seller called me up again and asked if i wanted to buy the guitar after all since he´d sprayed the electronics with WD40 and got it working again.?
Doh!!!

So...

After some hagglin we came to an agreement late this afternoon.
First thing i did was to bring it down to the shop to basicaly pull a first clean.
Let´s just agree that the colour....takes that one i secure in ones manhood Pantera X300 Lol

Anyway.
Without further delay.
One -86 vintage Westone Pantera X300 PP.
Completely stock,but it lacks a couple of minor details...and what´s more i´ve for a Q or two.

Pantera X300 Normal_1~6


Pantera X300 Normal_2~5



Pantera X300 Normal_6~4

Pantera X300 Normal_7~3

Pantera X300 Normal_3~6



Pantera X300 Normal_5~2
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Post by Racing Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:27 pm

Stains are oil that i used to recond the fretboard,so that´s all good.
However,it lacks one of the small brackets/lockplates for the lockable saddle.
Need to fab one of those,and what´s worse the windings in the lower part are shot.
Not really all that much of an issue to me seing what i do for a living...

The trem arm is missing,or more to the point i got the wrong one with the guitar...so i need to know how a stock one looks and how it´s hooked up.
Also,the rollers at the bridge are all seized and my Q there is if they´re supposed to reciprocate or not.?
If they are supposed to this needs to be adressed i believe.
That apart though,the axe really improved by a first simple fretboard cleaning and oiling.

Took the bridge apart and cleaned that as well,which indeed made it come out ontop-the rollers apart that is all depending.

So.
Could i ask one of you to tell me what the trem arm is supposed to look like and if those rollers are supposed to move or not.
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Post by Barry Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:11 pm

Oh-h-h-h-h-h....pretty pink and shmoooooth!
Our Polly will go potty over this one! Pantera X300 Icon_flower
Very nice Jesper.
It'll look real good beside one of your Masterpieces! Pantera X300 Lol

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Post by Racing Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:47 pm

Pantera X300 Affraid
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Post by Warrn Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:51 pm

I think this is my favorite Westone color. Well, maybe behind the blue Spectrum MX/SX, because I dig that trans blue maple fretboard, but this is at least a close second! If only the basses came in this shade... Oh well, perhaps I'll treat myself to one of these if I can ever get my fingers to work with chord shapes. Pantera X300 Icon_lol
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Post by Administrator Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:30 pm

sweet catch... kinda reminds me of a shirt I used to own....!

I'm sure Polly will be along shortly to tell you all you need to know.
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Post by Racing Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:11 pm

Due to me being slightly injured at this time i took it upon myself to rip the axe apart and partly get it in order and partly check it out.

First of all,the "rollers" of the bendmaster bridge are NOT supposed to move/reciprocate.
They are held in place on spring steel axles,and these are interferance fit vs the rollers.
Second,the tap that fits the bushing for the trem arm is standard metric M6.
Ie;for those that lack one...just order a generic black one for a floyd or similar as it´ll fit.

Cleaned the bridge out and sharpened the knifes of it.
Gave the various points that needed it some oil.
Fabbed the missing pieces for the locking bridge and replaced the screws with stainless allen ones.(M4)

Pulled a fretjob in as much that i leveled the frets,recrowned them and polished the entire board with a buffer.
Then cleaned it out,first with common water,detergent and a nailbrush followed by a rag and acetone.
Rosewood came out squeeky clean,and as such i oiled it up another two times with almond oil.
Basicaly i´d say the fretboard is all it can be now.
Setup was set rather low.

Heel of neck was sanded free of paint for wood to wood contact between the neck and body.
A stunt that can play rather large dividents as far as tone and sustain.

Then....porn time Pantera X300 Icon_cheers

Pantera X300 Normal_19~6

Pantera X300 Normal_8~19

An MMK 45 of course.... Pantera X300 Icon_twisted

Pantera X300 Normal_15~10

Pantera X300 Normal_29~1
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Post by Racing Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Pantera X300 Normal_21~6

Pantera X300 Normal_26~2

Pantera X300 Normal_22~5

Pantera X300 Normal_24~3

Pantera X300 Normal_25~2

What remains to be done is a fresh trem arm and a fresh set of string.

Bridge really turned out well,and you can lean into it to the point of being silly without the axe losing tune.

All in all i´m happy with it. Pantera X300 Icon_cheers
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Post by corsair Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:39 pm

Looking good! Yeah; those Bendmaster bridges are good when they're set-up right, eh - how much of a sharpen did you give the knife edges? I've always shied away a bit from that as I don't want to over-sharpen and ideally would like to know the OEM angles... but that's not gonna happen anytime soon!! Pantera X300 Icon_lol
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Post by Racing Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:12 pm

Thanx John.
Getting the OEM angles aint all that hard as the knifes are seldom worn through n through.
Ie;you can use a halfround needle file to set it straight.
Issue though is that the plate in itself is hardened,and as you file down...well the hardening is only that deep.
Well anyway,i do and i dress the whole enchilada with some 1200 grit emery wrapped over the file when done to get that really smooth surface to it.
Usualy works wonders,and when i put the bridge back in place i always use a minor dab of molybdenium grease at the contact points.
Moly being a VERY soft metal sort of "sacrifices" itself for the other metals involved.

The thing with this particular bridge though was that wear was at an absolute minimum.
I guess the trem arm went missing at an early state Pantera X300 Fresse ,and the guy i bought it from had gotten it from his parents new back in the day.
In short,the anodization of the plate was more or less still all there so this one just took a few strokes followed by the polishing to get 100%.

As you know i´ve hailed the Wonderbar/Shift off the Yamaki made Washies-and still do.
I´d say the bendmaster doesn´t go all the way,but close enough.
The Shift being MUCH more intricate and expensive as a solution.
I like the simplicity of the bendmaster.
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Post by corsair Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:02 pm

Racing wrote:I like the simplicity of the bendmaster.

Yep; that's exactly where I'm at, eh!! Although I've never had an FR or indeed any other floating bridge, I like how the BD sets up, and the FT is a little better in that you can intonate without slackening allen bolts etc.... Pantera X300 Icon_lol

I'll check the knife edges in mine when I get 'em back and will possibly dress them, but I definitely hadn't noticed any motion that shouldn't have been there... Pantera X300 Icon_lol
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Post by Racing Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:38 am

Well John,let´s just say that i´m not a super fan of trems over all Pantera X300 Icon_lol

To me...strings should really be bolted solidly to the guitar and done deal. Pantera X300 Fresse

None the less i´ve played around with them a lot both on guitars i´ve owned and those of others,and one thing´s for sure...they can ALL be made to work.
Some more sensitive than others.

The FR is a culprit to many due to it complexity.
Just check the various variants made by Ibanez since a no of years back,and these guys often show up at my doorstep with various issues that needs to be remedied."Failure" rate of those is HIGH to say the least.

I still find the most thought through solution being the Wonderbar/Shift,and then mainly as some jap sat down with what seems a clean slate and started to analyze the situation.
For instance using a torsion bar instead of springs IS a better solution,but OHHHH....is it EVAR more expensive from a production POW.
Likewise the mere idea of putting a trem bridge into production with FOURTEEN ballbearings....HELLO!!! Pantera X300 Icon_lol
The action,zero point asf though IS smoother than on anything else out there IMO.Even now...25yrs later.
Someone indeed did it right,but in doing so killed the product basicaly before it being baptised as it simply MUST have been WAY to expensive to "survive".
It being a flat top mount though...it sure is of hefty proportions,and from an estetic POW it isn´t exactly the prettiest thing man made...

Just imagine the difference in manufacturing cost vs the bendmaster when it comes to the rollers.
For the bendmaster the rollers are put in place with roll pins,which basicaly renders them not being able to "roll" anywhere,whilst for the Shift...they indeed ARE rollers...with ballbearings...mounted on very small machined axles within the yoke.
Ie;someone sat at a bench putting this together...which took time...and that someone alone needed to get paid...
Vs...someone just banging a set of roll pins into place.

Hence why for instance the FR survived and has been made under license by more than i care to count while the Shift died out...
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Post by corsair Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:58 am

Racing wrote:For the bendmaster the rollers are put in place with roll pins,which basicaly renders them not being able to "roll" anywhere,

Yeah; I wondered about that when I took my Genesis to bits and dismantled the BD; I put a little thought into it and for my second Clipper, about a year later, got a model engineer to turn me some axles, and to relieve the inside diameter of the rollers a little - job's a good 'un!!

I suppose life's a compromise, really, eh!! Pantera X300 Icon_cool Pantera X300 Icon_lol
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Post by Racing Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:10 am

Oh TRUST me when i say that i´ve given that thought.....
Having a lathe standing around is sometimes a drawback John... Pantera X300 Fresse
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Post by corsair Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:06 pm

Racing wrote:Having a lathe standing around is sometimes a drawback John... Pantera X300 Fresse

No. No, it's not... Pantera X300 Icon_lol When we moved I sold off all of my heavy gear - lathe, drill mill, gas plant - and have nothing left to do anything with so you just count yer blessings!! Pantera X300 Icon_biggrin Still, turning those wee axles was a bit beyond me and model engineers are brilliant...
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Post by Barry Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:03 pm

You guys are lucky. Try getting by with hand tools and a cordless drill (sigh)

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Post by Racing Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:39 pm

*ROTF*

John,Barry my friends...
Doin what i do for a living it kind of comes with the territory that machinery is around.
We don´t keep anything CNC at the shop tho as we simply don´t need it.
Old manual stuff does it for us as it´s in essence what we need for the proto stuff we make....and as always a machine like a lathe,bridgeport a TIG or whatever is never better than the man that knows how to swing it.
For the CNC stuff we got friends that own regular machine shop...and we carry Solidworks full 2007 at the shop...and are trained to use it...so i guess it´s all good. Pantera X300 Icon_biggrin

The Pantera got a fresh trem arm and fresh string today.
Made for a world of difference.

Opinions?
Yeah.
I find the Pantera suited vs rock and towards heavier music.
Blues...nah...it´s not the Panteras cup a tea i´d say.
For bandpractice tonite i tried the lick and solos of Spencer Davies groups old "gimme some lovin"...but...nah....
I ended up with one of my masterpieces wrapped around my neck for that.
Later on tho the amount of gain was....raised a "bit"...and we started to fool around with some more contemporary rock...and the Pantera was right at home.
I even pulled some squeels with it Pantera X300 Fresse
Overtones and a trem can sure be fun at times...(nooooo.....nooooo i friggin REFUSE to grow up!!!!) Pantera X300 Icon_biggrin
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Post by corsair Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:56 pm

Racing wrote:Overtones, overdrive and a trem can sure be fun at times...(

...fixed!! Pantera X300 Icon_lol Damn right!! growing up is over-rated.... Pantera X300 Icon_twisted
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Post by Racing Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:50 am

I stand corrected!! Pantera X300 Icon_cheers
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Post by Guest Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:38 am

Barry wrote:Oh-h-h-h-h-h....pretty pink and shmoooooth!
Our Polly will go potty over this one! Pantera X300 Icon_flower ...
Oh yes indeedy!!!! Pantera X300 Icon_biggrin I am suitably jealous now - DROOL!

(Aha, as realisation dawns... I knew your name was familiar!
Pantera X300 Icon_idea )

Cor Jasper, what a palaver eh, but you got there in the end!

I haven't read through everything here thoroughly yet but I did happen to see your question about the trem arm. If it hasn't already been resolved, (I'll read this again later) I'll take some photos of mine so you can see what it looks like.

Well done mate!
Pantera X300 Icon_cheers

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Post by Racing Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:56 am

I got me a trem arm that fit.
I read a post a little bit down the board on what angles asf they´re supposed to have.

Have pulled a mod though.
I replaced the OEM MMK at the bridge.
At first i tried with a Tonerider generator i had laying around,but nah....seing the inherent physics of the Pantera that was over the top.
Then opted to install a Seymour Duncan JB.
Ie,a pup really biased for mahogony guitars, with which i´ve had good results before in various guitars that are not.For instance in a Vantage 795.
Yup.
That did the trick as far as i´m concerned,and what happend was that the guitar "opened up" for lack of better description.
In general though there´s nothing soft about a Pantera.
Tone of it is "cut through" no matter what which stands to reason seing the maple involved.

Which brings me to a subject i´ve written about on the other Uncle Mat board too.
Why is it that various MMK45s specificaly varies as much as they do from a tonal POW?
Now,that is just me and my OPINION,but i really fail to see where as for instance the halfrail of the Pantera is a duplicate of say the 45 in my 795 Vantage-them both clearly being marked MMK45.
I don´t get it as they in my opinion sound VERY different,and the mere fact of the rail ferrite of the Pantera would back that up no matter the DC resistance.

Sure.
We often measure DC resistance of a given pup,but that is not the entire answer.
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