12 string PANTERA Project

Barry wrote:Yer scarn' the crap outa me!

I'm getting less scared now that I know the intonation is good. Making the nut will be scary , but after that then it is all sanding and painting, and wiring which I think I can handle. I just wish I could do it all in one day. Can't wait to be finished and take a pic next to the other Panteras

I know I'm a little late on this, but to stop the drill bit bouncing around and damaging the finish, a strip of masking tape across the intended site usually works for me....

damn nuts. I did A terrible job on spacing the nut. I got the files today, and I guess this nut was for practice cause it came out terrible as far as the spacing goes. I need to be much more careful on the starting cut. Some came out good, but half bad, so a new nut is ordered. Ugh - frustrating.

sarcaster wrote:damn nuts.

That's what she said.

Barry wrote:

sarcaster wrote:damn nuts.

That's what she said.

And here's me feeling ashamed because I REALLY wanted to comment snidely on the "Nut width" topic over in Technical...

sarcaster wrote:damn nuts. I did A terrible job on spacing the nut. I got the files today, and I guess this nut was for practice cause it came out terrible as far as the spacing goes. I need to be much more careful on the starting cut. Some came out good, but half bad, so a new nut is ordered. Ugh - frustrating.

Yeah that must be real tough to space a 12 string nut. Probably be near impossible to find a used one that fit. Hang in there, thats a heck of a project you are undertaking! May take a few to get it right.

So while I wait for my nut delivery (no comments needed), I took some time today to get ready for painting. Took all the hardware off. Rounded the edges of the body end tuner shelf, and sanded for a few hours the whole thing. It is ready for a coat of primer - to see if there are any flaws. Then I need to order up some paint. My hands hurt from sanding but I want this thing to turn out as good as it can. Once the nut is here, and I get the paint then I think i am done spending money on this project, and will only need to spend time to make this thing work. Can't wait.

yes it took 3 nuts to get it right (I hope). It's glued and clamped at the moment. Now where did I put my pickguard material to make the new truss rod cover??? ugh, my lady cleaned up and cant find it. It will be a bit larger than other Pantera covers since the locking nut is gone. Hopefully find it tomorrow, then clean up the fret board and the neck should be good to go.

Here is the new nut



Much better than the failed ones. Needs a bit of polishing and I think I may need to go deeper on the slots, but will wait till after first setup to make those changes.

So I have my EMG 5 way toggle and noticed that the screw holes did not line up. Not a big deal, I filled the holes and sanded smooth. So I was about to drill the new holes when I thought to myself......How well does this switch fit in the cavity?

Th pic speaks for itself:



Ain't no way that's gonna work as it stands.

Ugh. So shall I route out a bigger contral cavity, or use the original switch and get passive PUPS? I was really looking forward to this set of EMG's

there was an old lady who swallowed a bird. How absurd to swallow a bird!
she swallowed the bird to catch the spider.
she swallowed the spider to catch the fly.

i don't know why she swallowed the fly?




i say use the pickups you want to use!

While I agree to use the pups - it is a challenge now to route out this guitar like a 390 or a 350 with my limited routing experience. I really gotta think about this

I'm sure you can do it as long as you measure carefully and take it slow!

How about just making enough space just to get the plug on? Chisel. Keeping the original cover shape.

Chisel may be tough. See the pins on the bottom of the switch - thats where the wires connect so I need even more room for those wires and their connectors. I don't think I have it in me to work on that part today - I need to think on it for a bit.

Woodworking gouge, perhaps?? They have all sorts of sizes and odd shapes to make odd shaped holes/rebates in wood??

I agree, mate - take a step back and have a dispassionate look at it. I gotta say, you're a lot braver than I am....

Could you use a normal Strat switch and solder the wires up like the older EMG wiring kits?

From what I can remember they used the guitar's original switch and just swapped the pots with 25K ohms units. These new solderless kits seem far more complicated circuits than the older versions!

DAN.

DuoFuzz wrote:Could you use a normal Strat switch and solder the wires up like the older EMG wiring kits?

From what I can remember they used the guitar's original switch and just swapped the pots with 25K ohms units. These new solderless kits seem far more complicated circuits than the older versions!

DAN.

I actually have an older EMG switch that doesn't have the circuit board, but I'm no wiring genius so some thought is going into that as well. Perhaps a nice 6 pack of Guinness will help me figure it out.

Ok, so I bought a new router bit today to make the cavity bigger. I also has got a sample old Ford metallic blue paint to spray on some plywood and see if it was what I wanted. The 65 Mustangs came in a Caspian Blue, but this blue did not turn out like the 65.

Not to get ahead of myself, but before starting the routing, I figured I would spray some primer to see what flaws i have in the body sanding so far, and I found quite a few. The block of wood I put in the trem cavitiy is noticeable from all four sides which I will remedy as well as some other little scratches and dings. None of it is a big deal, but glad to spray the gray and see these.


But.....I got this blue paint sample......I got primer on the guitar....Should I spray the sample and see what it looks like on the guitar instead of some plywood??? Of course the answer is yes.



So what do you all think of this Ford Metallic Blue. I thought it would be a bit darker but it's a lot lighter than I thought. Now if I keep this color, it will still be totally sanded down so I can fix the defects, so by no means should you look at this as the paint job that will remain. There is dust, bugs and other things as this was a spray on a windy day with no prep.

One of my kids says it's perfect, the other says it should be darker, my lady Is trying to figure out which anwser keeps me out of the garage, and keeps me from spending anymore before xmas.

So without further rambling, here are a few pix of a guitar that still needs some routing, filling, and sanding before I get to the painting stage, but kinda cool to see any color on it shots:












So what do you think - darker? Keep it?

I still think bright Orange California style would be unique


I also saw some dark metallica grey's that are very understated, but may be just the trick?

Feel free to give me your thoughts - we gots lots o time before I really paint it.

I'm thinkin' Neon Electric BlueSky...

I rather like it. Possibly fade a Midnight blue contrast in and around the perimeter???

No plans on repainting the headstock to match?

The Chad wrote:

Barry wrote:

sarcaster wrote:damn nuts.

That's what she said.

And here's me feeling ashamed because I REALLY wanted to comment snidely on the "Nut width" topic over in Technical...

Oh My Word!!!! REALLY, Chad?!?!?!?!?



















..besides everyone knows the width of the nut is not what matters the most.

I dunno Sarc, it's a good colour but I think it's cryin' out for a burst of some sort. Can't make up my mind what kind though.
Probably along the lines of the Spectrum GT. And seeing as how it's an '80's geetar and all...metallic/sparkly maybe?

Sarc

Darker!!

I once restored a 1960 Mk11 Jaguar and the colour was Indigo Blue. At the time I could not get a match and settled on a dark Metallic Volvo blue from the early/mid 1980's.

Do not sand a metallic finish as it screws up the colour. Just heap on loads of varnish and smooth the varnish coats.

Hoax

Darker?? No way!! That is fantastic! Definitely keep it!

Mixed results eh? I kinda like the dark Metallic grey idea. Who know's? Let me rout out this control cavitiy tomorrow and think on it. I do still like the Orange Idea too - very pointy 80's like.

Oddly, my friends on Facebook seem to like this color. Maybe it is growing on me.

regardless, it will all be sanded down to make up for the flaws so there is time to change my mind. but it is kinda cool to see it with some color at the least.

I mat do some routing tomorrow. I just really hate routing a 30 year old piece of wood.

Iceman wrote:No plans on repainting the headstock to match?

No way - neck is black - gonna stay black - no messing with that

Barry wrote:I dunno Sarc, it's a good colour but I think it's cryin' out for a burst of some sort. Can't make up my mind what kind though.
Probably along the lines of the Spectrum GT. And seeing as how it's an '80's geetar and all...metallic/sparkly maybe?

I don;t think I can do a burst, and that colour is Metallic already - I think it looks very Westonish

hoax wrote:
Sarc

Darker!!

I once restored a 1960 Mk11 Jaguar and the colour was Indigo Blue. At the time I could not get a match and settled on a dark Metallic Volvo blue from the early/mid 1980's.

Do not sand a metallic finish as it screws up the colour. Just heap on loads of varnish and smooth the varnish coats.

Hoax

Really??? no wetsanding a metallic finish first??? It does look kinda good with no sanding, but I would think somw sanding before the clear. Especially to make a smooth spot for the PANTERA logo on the body before the clear goes on - I will have to research it - never painted metallic before

I would like to say Thank you all for your comments On this project so far. I've not done this before, and I hope I haven't offended the Westone purists buy cutting one up, and think at the same time they are thinking (wish I had done that). But this Forum is very cool and positive. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions so far and hope they continue. Just want to say thanks eh. Now lets get that Westone Fest together

Personally, I think that blue is OK; hardware is chrome, yes? Metallic grey, however, could be a little non- descript; mate, you wanna stand out up there, eh!! Dunno about orange; one of th Electra lads finished a Quantum in orange and it is very bright.

You could burst that blue by feathering in black from the edge towards the centre?

regardless, this is great!

California Orange with a black neck will just look Halloweeny, now that I think about it. Hadn't factored the neck color in. Definitely need something bright to offset it though, and that's a fine shade of bright blue to do it!

The blue is growing on me - I thnk maybe I'll put the hardware on and see a bit more of what it would look like.

corsair wrote:
...You could burst that blue by feathering in black from the edge towards the centre?

regardless, this is great!

You hit the nail square there John. I was attempting to say the same earlier with my midnight blue comment, but your description of how is much more accurate.

This guit looks wonderful and will I think no matter what color scheme you decide on Sarc. Sticking to a non-OEM shade as you did with your green Pantera would be appropriate again, IMHO.

I would highly recommend the pearlescent/metallic orange that Ford use on their focus ST- it was te other option i was going to use for my Strat but I went for the Focus RS green instead. It my need a Pro spray due to the multi layer paint. I was lucky one of my wife's cousins is a car sprayer so got it cheap. this should give you an idea of the colour http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/ford_focus_st_wing_badges_407.htm

Off white/creamy goes nice with the black hardware/neck.

If the hardware was chrome who knows?????????

Westbone wrote:Off white/creamy goes nice with the black hardware/neck.

If the hardware was chrome who knows?????????

Hardware is all black - so no changing my mind on that part


And I don;t think a burst is in the works for those that want to see that, sorry. I think a burst looks best when there is wood visible.

Almost did the route to the cavity for the controls but the NY Jets game was on my mind and too many beers makes it a bad time to take a router to it

This has to be the longest topic on the forums.
7 pages and counting...............

Still, good stuff

I'm procrastinating till it hits 10 pages :0

Actually - sorry it is taking much longer than anticipated. But house, family, a move of houses, etc has slowed it down. I just want it to work

sarcaster wrote:I'm procrastinating till it hits 10 pages :0...

Atta'boy Sarc! Carly Simon would be proud of you.


Get 'um thirsty for more and then finish 'em off slow...

So Hoax says no wet sanding on Metallic paint - been looking round the net, and getting mixed results. Anyone here have experience with it?

sarcaster wrote:So Hoax says no wet sanding on Metallic paint - been looking round the net, and getting mixed results. Anyone here have experience with it?

I think Frenchy has done it a couple of times but he has not been about lately. Have you checked the Mats forum yet Sarc? I know there are several threads there on it as well as a few members who have done it.

Not on that forum Ice, but just searching around I get mixed results. I guess since this paint job is only a coat and a test and I still have some routing to do, I can test the wet sanding and see before I sand it all down. I've been reading if you wet sand it, you hit the flakes in the metallic and it makes it look odd, but if you just kill it with clear and wet sand that it looks good.

To me all Westones were killed with spray - thick stuff, the paint is thick, and the clear on my 350 is like 1/8th inch based on a ding in it, so , maybe I will overkill the clear on it, but will test first.


Still, everyone outside this forum likes that blue so I think that will be the colour of choice.

Do a coat of metallic, flat sand, spray again, flat sand if you have to. Get your surface perfect.
Final coat of met. Good few coats of clear, flat out any imperfections as you go, so you never touch your final met. coat.
Just like spraying a car.

I know you want to finish the whole thing yourself but have you considered your local spray shop and have it done in 2 pack paint just like the original finish?

I like the adivce thanks. I think i can make it work. One way or another. Just need to order a bunch more of this paint. Still gotta do some routing for the elctronics and clean up some flaws. I may practive the paint on a regular sanded board first. Nad since I've come this far on my own - it's all me on the home stretch

sorry for the delay, but today I cleaned my garage- ughe like 5 hours of work. Tomorrow I may get some guitar work. I made a nice section of the garage just for my guitar work.

sarcaster wrote: it's all me on the home stretch

With you there.

Westbone advice as always good, dont touch the last met coat, polishing up the clear is easy.

Didn't get to it today. Beers + NY Jets Game made it impossible

Thanks for doing this Sarc, I think we've all learned something from it!

And that blue is pretty, very Ford like, but it looks fast that way. Are you gonna put the Pantera decal on it too?

Weren't De Tomaso Panteras Ford powered?

Warrn wrote:Weren't De Tomaso Panteras Ford powered?

Lol, yeah they were!!! 351's I'm pretty sure. Man those are sweet looking cars!!!