Thunder 1A Restoration

Hi all

I've decided to give my Thunder 1A Version 2, (owned by me from new!) a good going over...here are some intro pics...apart from the dust (!) you can see how tarnished and grimy the bridge, saddles etc are and I'm wondering whether to refurb it or replace it with one of the ebay replacements recommended on this forum. The saddles and bridge plate and intonation adjustment screws should clean up ok, (soak in metal polish...?) can anyone recommend replacement springs?

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Now, problem number one is the bottom left screw holding the bridge on. The crosshead is totally knackered and therefore I think needs gently drilling out such that I can get the bridge off and leave a post long enough to get purchase with a pair of pliers and remove whats left of the screw.

Problem number two will be the pick up ring screws and the pickup height adjustment screws, anyone know of good replacements....

Problem number three is the damage to the body caused by my extensive gigging, and perspiring....

Thanks, all input gratefully received...

G... 

Depends how far you are taking the restoration but the only thing I could suggest for the body is trying to get a matching colour wood filler, a putty basically, and refinish the laquer. the problem though is that you would lose the grain I would think. Or possibly build up the layers of laquer to "fill" the damage? Tricky one that.

dustymiller wrote:Depends how far you are taking the restoration but the only thing I could suggest for the body is trying to get a matching colour wood filler, a putty basically, and refinish the laquer. the problem though is that you would lose the grain I would think. Or possibly build up the layers of laquer to "fill" the damage? Tricky one that.

Yea, I probably wont worry too much about the body wear, it's good and honest and reminds me of all the gigs I did with the guitar. As you can see, it's thru the finish and into the grain of the wood, I think I sweat hydrochloric acid... 

I'd try to tap the screw out rather than drill.
Tap a flat screwdriver head into it.

A few taps will loosen the thread in the timber also.

All the brass will clean up.

Thanks Westbone, I'll try that.

I've just been cleaning up the saddles with wire wool and polish and noticed that the height adjusting grub screws are corroded in place. As long I can get the saddles back on the same strings all should be OK, bass strings are high, treble are low.... 

Forgot to mention.
If you soak all the brass in thinners it'll remove all the lacquer.
Will also help loosen those saddle screws.

It's easy to get the grub screws out of the saddles. New ones are available if needed.

Well, I managed to remove the last screw and remove the bridge, used a hacksaw blade and cut a slot in the screw and cleaned all the rust out of the screw hole to get a better grip. I've cleaned up the bridge and saddles..

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now I'll soak the saddles in metal polish and try to remove the grub screws. I have an allen key small enough that came with the guitar but i'm afraid it will bend and/or break if I use too much force...

Those little Grubb screws can be a PITA, eh; I tend to soak the saddle in diesel or Inox for a couple of days and if that doesn't work, I once put an oxy-acetylene flame to one!!

I can assure you that heat worked a treat, and hex keys are tough little buggers; I've not broken one yet and what's more, they're still making them!! From memory, i think that little one is 1.5mm??

As Corsair says, heat can work wonders but oxy-acetylene may be a tad OTT for such a tiny screw, I would soak it in a thin lubricant (wd40 or whatever) overnight, dry it off and apply a soldering iron for a few minutes, it's worked for me before, good luck

Yeah.... not a little OTT, but a lot!! Nothing would move that bloody screw - lubricant, diesel, mild heat - so in a rush of blood to head, out came the gas plant...  

To remove that dug-in dirt, try an Oxalic acid solution, gently worked in with a soft artist's brush. Let it sit awhile, then wipe with clean cloth or cotton ball and reapply as many times as needed.

It should lighten the wood back to near original. Then you can go ahead with filler or lightly sand and seal.

Wow chaps, thanks for all the suggestions. Update... I managed to remove the grubs from two of the saddles, and the other four are soaking now. I like the soldering iron idea, I'll try that if a 24 hour soak doesn't budge 'em. Glad I didn't replace the bridge the original just needed a good clean...any suggestions for the springs and new grubs....I found these

ebay item no 331227473348

and these

ebay item 230832814177


G

You want M3 x 8mm, 10 mm if you like em sticking into your palm a little

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-X-8-STAINLESS-STEEL-GRUB-SCREWS-QTY-30-/161225191668?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Nails_Fixing_MJ&hash=item2589c530f4

Ta....attention now turns to removing the pick up rings...more cruddy screws... 

Sgt. Vimes wrote:You want M3 x 8mm, 10 mm if you like em sticking into your palm a little

.....I'll go for the 8mm....

Progress....yes heat was the answer with the grub screws, tried the soldering iron but didn't get enough heat transfer so went for the cigarette lighter which shifted most of the little buggers....last few shifted when I held them over the gas ring.....  .....new grubs on order, I've gone for black ones....and I've shifted all but one of the pick up ring screws...I don't think I'll replace the rings, just the screws and maybe the height adjustment screws. I may clean the fingerboard later...now where did I leave my horse toothbrush.....?????

So far, so good..... 

"open up, dobbin"

Hi folks

Pick up ring screws all removed, looking for suitable brass replacements for these and the brass screws holding the bridge down. From what I see I need No 4 x 5/8" raised head brass woodscrews for the bridge

Cleaned the fingerboard, couldn't find the horse's toothbrush so used the wife's, Also polished the frets and cleaned the machines.

I think I'm going to lacquer the brassware after a final polish, read the Cleaning Brass thread...great but thinking of using paint on lacquer rather than spray.

What's the best way of cleaning and polishing the knurled edges of the brass knobs...?

gjw wrote:

What's the best way of cleaning and polishing the knurled edges of the brass knobs...?

With your wife's toothbrush... ...the one with brass bristles.

Westbone wrote:

gjw wrote:

What's the best way of cleaning and polishing the knurled edges of the brass knobs...?

With your wife's toothbrush... ...the one with brass bristles.

..of course, (the brass one's for the toenails.....). Pick up ring screws are 3.5 x 12mm and bridge plate screws are 3.5 x 20mm...cross head brass, available in B&Q but pricey, annoyingly not so easy to find on the 'net.... ...slotted head...easy to find.... ...now as for the springs....

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Papa-Ds-Music-Store/screws-/_i.html?_fsub=143624014&_sid=63831824&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

The pickup mount screws are m2.5 x 12 the head dia. Is 4.3 if memory serves.

Hi all, still looking for suitable brass screws for bridge and pick up surrounds, I mailed Papa D's to see if they have the correct size and spec....

3mm shank 20mm long and 6mm raised c/sunk head  and...

2.5mm shank 12mm long and 4.75mm flat c/sunk head

any ideas.... 

Hi again

Gave the brass knobs a good going over with a wire cup brush in the drill, came up a treat, ordered some springs (from China!), bridge screws ( packet of 50, only need 5 so I'll have a few spares....!!) and pick up mount screws, (2.5mm x 15mm x 5mm dia. head...)

See how we go...

G... 

PS glad I got some new batteries for the micrometer...

Good work, got a link for the pup mount screws ?
I've used 5mm head scratchplate screws before and the head was far too fat, had to recountersink (that's a word!)  the holes,  not cool.

Hmmm...I found the screws here....I measured the existing screws as 4.75mm...

Another Option (based in Germany) would be this page: LINK

There are plenty of little and bigger screws that you normally need to restore a guitar but aren't available anywhere (at least if you only need a few of them). I have dealt with them several times and was always fully satisfied. Disadvantage is that shipping to the UK costs 10 Eur.

silence86 wrote:There are plenty of little and bigger screws that you normally need to restore a guitar but aren't available anywhere (at least if you only need a few of them). 

Annoying isn't it... 

So...

For all you photo buffs, a picture update...

Pick up mounts with B & Q screws fitted, as you can see the screw heads are just slightly too big...  

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...shiny knobs...  

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...and does anyone else have this problem with the top of neck pick up mount distorting...too close to the fingerboard...

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sorry about fuzzy pics, crap camera on phone...  

G

Too brassy as well....   should be black

+1

these are options
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400621412099?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350948408453?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281222542175?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

the first link is the most accurate, though I do like the hex head in the 2nd link, though they are a tighter thread being a machine screw.

also these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330724737745?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Sgt. Vimes wrote:also these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330724737745?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That's the baby.

yep, had them in my watch list forever, never had to purchase them coz a little scuffing with sandpaper and a quick blast with black spray paint tidies up the originals in 2 minutes, I do this when I pop outside for a jsmoke and hit them with a lighter for a minute, start to finish in 3 minutes  

Westbone wrote:Too brassy as well....   should be black

I think you may be right....

....although now I'm not so sure....these are different pick up ring screws, the B & Q ones heads were too big....



...as you can see, knobs saddles and bridge plate polished and lacquered ( Yes, I used 2 in 1 Top Coat and Enhancer Nail Polish...!!...seems to have worked fine, easy to apply.) Just waiting for the intonation springs to arrive and I can finish the rebuild.



Now, the pick up ring screws came from here, and they do them in black so I still may get a black set for "posh do's"...slightly longer and raised head but they look fine.

...and the bridge plate screws from here...they are nigh on perfect apart from the fact that they are fractionally smaller and cross head, not pozi...

...the intonation springs are here...not arrived yet..

...all in all going well....  ...would it be a good idea to have a sticky topic with the links for all the various screws, springs etc etc for future reference...  

..now where did I put my Thunder IIA....  

G

Looking better, good job

Stop Press...the springs have arrived... 

Ok, Bridge back together, just a new set of strings intonation and action adjustment, will soon be good to go...



 

Looking GREAT.

The pickup pole pieces could do with a quick light sanding, I use a lolly stick with 400 grit wet dry paper glued to it for jobs like that,  works a treat.

Magnum or Feast.... 

Those women's fingernail boards things work a treat.

Personally I like a bit of originality, as it is, character!

You wouldn't dare do that on a 'real' vintage guitar..... 

I'm not sure about the pole pieces if I do those then I'll have to do the screws on the pick ups I think....

Any road up, here she is strung, intonated etc etc, I haven't stopped playing her since she was restrung, all the playability and tone variation that I remember from when I first got her way back when....especially thru the vintage AC30....  



sitting next to her big cousin who now looks in dire need of a makeover...



grimy bridge, pitted chrome on the tailpiece, grotty knobs, chrome wear on pick up covers....



and here hanging out with an Indian cousin...



Thanks to all those who contributed advice and info, much appreciated, look out for the next thread....."Thunder IIa make-over"...coming soon