Westone Paduak

I haven't seen this model before.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WESTONE-PADUAK-1-GUITAR-1981-MATSUMOKU-/170512285112?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item27b352fdb8

They're a little more uncommon than the likes of the Spectrums, Thunder
and Panteras but there are a few about; our own Polly restored one...

Here's the relevant info..

http://www.westone.info/paduak.html

Looks to be in reasonable condition BUT it has that stupid barrel saddle bridge!!
The only minor difference between this version and the ones inflicted on the rest of the Mats line is that this has string slots (whoppee).
It's still crap.

And what's the deal with that 2-shot pic...is it just the camera angle making the one on the left look smaller??? And why is there even a second guitar in the pic at all?? :?:

It seems that the guitarist from Hawkwind used a Paduak. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Brock

Dave has used a variety of guitars over the years, but has steadfastly used Westone (guitars) for over 25 years. A Westone Spectrum LX since 1985 (custom painted by Alan Arthurs, with a portion of the Space Ritual LP cover), and previously had a Westone Paduak-1 from 1982 until 2008, custom painted by Guy Thomas after the St. Albans gig of the 1984 winter tour, with the Warrior on the Edge of Time LP cover.

Is this it? (bit hard to tell with the paint job).

one of my pals used to jam with Hugh Lloyd-Langton sometimes of Hawkwind and he played a paduak amongst others

AT... yep; look at the headstock; that's not a Spectrum...

I've just finished reading Carol Clerks book about Hawkwind; entertaining read to the least!! What an odyssey Hawkwind has been!

Yes that is a Paduak, with one of Barry's beloved barrel saddle bridges, seems he used his with no ill effect.
I've had one of these on my Paduak for years, whats your problem Bassa, your one strings through the back. Just make the string slots on the barrels a little deeper, works absolutely fine.

The reason why there's two in the picture as I stated " I have two" Anyone have any interest, give me a shout.

There's also a Rainbow1, Thunder IIA. Having a little clearout of a few I don't use too often.

D man.

I did notice your other items. The Thunder IIA is white. Is this the standard finish? I've seen huge numbers of Thunder 1As, and all were black or natural finish.

When I saw the Thunder IIA, I immediately guessed that the likely selling price will be very significantly more than a typical Thunder 1A, as happens with the Thunder basses. That's why I haven't bid on it.

Here's a link to a catalogue, they where painted in 2 colours.

http://www.westone.info/cats/83/p7.html

Westbone wrote:...whats your problem Bassa, your one strings through the back. Just make the string slots on the barrels a little deeper, works absolutely fine....

Oh Judas Priest, don't make me go there again!
I have lots of posts both here and on the Mats site concerning the problems with these things. Even Tom Presley said that they should never have seen production. Making the slots deeper would not change the wacky physics involved. They're still unstable and pivot all over the place.

Suffice it to say that my Thunder IA is the worst as far as tracking and stability is concerned, and the Vantage Avenger AV 325 is the worst for parallel tracking up the neck. Another Avenger AV310 has already been replaced; it too was suffering from tracking problems.
The Paduak for some reason has the string hook on the bottom of the plate which is a slight improvement, I guess, since it puts more downward tension on the saddle. But I would replace it because the strings are still ridiculously kinked and pulling everything laterally.

Not being funny Barry but why did you buy them? ebay items?
Sounds as if they came from the factory with offset bridges.

All were bought via Kijiji (locally).
The Thunder was the first buy, and I was completely in the dark about the bridge, just smitten with the idea of owning a Thunder! I paid more than my usual limit to get her, with an OHSC.

Then the Avenger AV325 appeared quickly afterwards. It was so damn beautiful and pristine that I just couldn't pass it up. Cheap too!!

Finally, the Avenger AV310 surfaced, for cheap! It was an unholy mess and by then I knew about the bridge troubles so I knew what I was getting into. I figured it would be my test bed. It was, and I fixed it. So, now it's on to the other two, but with a bit more care and caution.

Bottom line: They're Mats guitars fer Pete's sake! Bridges aside they're bloody amazing guitars! And yes Mats changed them very quickly. 1981 seems to have been the watershed year for changes

Not that I'm taking either side in the bl**dy big bridge bashup, but are there easily available and not too expensive bridges that can be swapped in?

Very good, you seem a happy fellow with your purchases. No doubt Dave Brock of Hawkwind was with his barrel saddle bridge, he used it for numerous years. So did myself. I wouldn't refer to them as crap just not the best design in the world. Set up correctly they work very well.
D man.

Westbone wrote:Very good, you seem a happy fellow with your purchases...

Absolutely! They're amazing players, um, bridges aside.

Annoying Twit wrote:...are there easily available and not too expensive bridges that can be swapped in?

As I said above I have already replaced one and I have replacements at the ready for the other two when I get off my lazy arse and get to it.

Have a read here if you're interested in this topic. The pix speak for themselves:

• Thunder I-A
  
• Was Uncle Mats "Smoking"?
  
• Avenger AV310 Restoration

Barry just loves Matsumoku barrel saddle bridges and is planning to buy as many as he can....

corsair wrote:Barry just loves Matsumoku barrel saddle bridges and is planning to buy as many as he can....

To be melted down for scrap value.

I saw a Squier Bronco bass a few minutes ago in a pawn shop. It had a bridge which was two of those round things, two strings per half. One half was parallel to the body, the other was at an alarming angle to the body. I guess that wouldn't be good for intonation.

Barrel saddles in themselves are not bad. Hell, the Telecaster has used them since the 50's!
But it's in the way they are utilized relative to the bridge design that causes problems. Mats completely blew it on theirs. The bass guitars don't seem to suffer quite as much because there's more room. In virtually every case, the problem is that the string is forced to bend or "kink" up and over the intonation screw rather than be in front of it and in line with it.

Therein lies the main problem which causes a lateral pull on the string pack. That means they don't track properly over the pickup poles, nor do they run parallel up the neck. The bass E string on my AV325 is nearly off the fretboard at the bottom end!

Couple that with too much length in the intonation screws and you have an unstable point on which the string rests. If you strum too hard the saddles actually pivot on the bridge! (Corsair's imagery reference to the swinging nuts on a fighting dog spring to mind!)

In my case the .009" treble E jumped completely off the fretboard. One Mats member also reported that the adjustment grub screws regularly work themselves right out of the saddles entirely because of this movement!

Nope.
Crap.
No doubt about it.

In the 1981 catalogue the Thunder 1 has the strange barrel saddle bridge that Barry keeps mentioning and you can clearly see that the neck pup looks ok but on the bridge pup the strings go way off course . 1981 Thunder 1 Link

and the Paduak looks wonky too!

On the other hand Thunder Bass barrel saddles are fine I've never had a problem with them.

bowenjaybee wrote:...you can clearly see that the neck pup looks ok but on the bridge pup the strings go way off course...

If you look even closer you'll notice that the bridge itself isn't sitting properly on that maple/walnut centre piece. It's off-centre and to the right in an effort to compensate for the incorrect string spacing. The one on my AV310 was actually rotated to try and cut down the angle!

and the Paduak looks wonky too!

You can clearly see that the screws are leaning to the right and the saddles pushed out of alignment.

and if the bridge was centred the bottom e string would fly off the fretboard. I'm with you now Barry this bridge is a disaster no wonder they quickly changed it. Thank goodness my Thunder is version 2

Your telling me that a grub screw worked it's way out of a barrel and no one noticed. Flinging flyin facts!! B man. Didn't it go out of tune, or buzz prior to the escape? It could only escape from the roof of the barrel ? and if it did(not that it didn't) you'd have a 3mm grub screw stabbing your palm.

Don't shoot the messenger!
http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5474&start=10#p32128

All I can say is that the bridge on this Padauk sets the intonation as should, string height, anchors the strings on the base plate(bottom) not on the rear edge as yours Barry and has no issues with grub screws. The stretch over the pole pieces is fine. You do have a slight kink from anchor point to saddle(as we all know) but this IS a different bridge to yours and therefor should not be referred to as crap. It does the job well. Maybe not the worlds best design, I agree. From the anchor point to the beloved barrel the string length is about 3/4", whereas strung from the rear of base plate it's about 1 1/4" giving the kink a lot more leverage on the barrel, that would make a difference. I've had this guitar for a number of years without any problems from the bridge. Must have made it on a Monday, after a weekend of saki.

The Pope called.
"Special Dispensation" for the Paduak bridge!
Provided you use it with liberal amounts of Saki.

Is the Pope a german?? March on.
Dman.

Loved that little spat.
Westbone, you picture 2 Pads but they look like they have different bridges...? Just curious.

"Spat"?
How can you be mad at someone who looks like Olivia De Havilland?

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/g/p7041142.jpg/
The smaller of the two is the same , almost, as the normal Thunder type bridge. through body stringing but the saddles are .5mm smaller and are not interchangable with normal thunder ones, the base plate is smaller too, with three screws only. I've now seen 5 bridges on these. 2 in photos, normal thunder type, heavy duty on Paduak II and a trem type.

Annoying Twit wrote:I did notice your other items. The Thunder IIA is white. Is this the standard finish? I've seen huge numbers of Thunder 1As, and all were black or natural finish.

Speak of the devil....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Westone-Thuder-IA-Electric-Guitar-Rare-early-80s-model-/120596338802?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1c141a1872

Barry wrote:"How can you be mad at someone who looks like Olivia De Havilland?

LOL, if only.

Only time we laugh out loud is when england beat wales.

Jokes aside, That was funny, Barry.

nice avatar Westbone, i'd never heard of Olivia de Havilland until now, please don't ask if I've seen adventures Robin Hood or Gone with the wind cos i haven't!! (Wikipedia research done)