Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock base.

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Post by corsair on Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:38 pm

I've sent the base that David Blair sent to me all those years ago across to Rick, who is about cast some in aluminium!

Exciting times, peoples!! 

Over to you, Rick.....

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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:21 pm

I did receive the bendmaster deluxe from John, like he has been saying it is very soft being made from resin.

I’m learning quite a bit here, I didn’t even know such a beast existed!
Now I also understand what he has been talking about with the shims... my dynasty has the other type so I had been confused... not a difficult thing for me to be confused... lol

Anyway...
I have it and I have started the mold, the bottom of the mold should be poured tonight or in the morning depending on how long the other half takes to cure.

I will do these the same way, copy in wax and cast in aluminum.

Question, the locking bits... I will be working on them soon...
Will aluminum be okay or should I look at a different material?

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Last edited by knicelyr on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:19 pm

Second side of the mold is poured.
I added a very very thin layer of clay so that the threads take as much space as possible after leveling the bottom.

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Post by Slicepack on Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:27 am

This is fascinating.
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Post by knicelyr on Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:40 am

Thank you Slicepack!

The mold is fully cured and I have made the first wax copy!
I hope to cast a few over the weekend Smile

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Post by corsair on Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:14 pm

bounce Thumb Up

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Post by knicelyr on Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:42 pm

4 ready to go!
Hope to cast tomorrow evening or Saturday Smile

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Post by knicelyr on Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:47 pm

Here goes somethin’ !

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Post by knicelyr on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:01 am

Pretty cool looking paperweight??

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John, anything look familiar?
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Post by knicelyr on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:06 am

So the bad news.
The locking bits need to be adjusted every so slightly, and I mean slightly...

John, don’t worry I didn’t mess with your locking bits.

I would like to cast some locking bits and see if they adjust. Worried about aluminum, do you guys think aluminum will hold the strings?

The holes and castle line up with the original, not exactly sure what’s going on with the locking bits.

John, I would like to send you one to see how it works on your guitar, do you have any spare locking bits you are willing to shave down a hair?

Going to clean them up tomorrow or Saturday Smile

-R
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Post by knicelyr on Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:56 am

Okay I couldn’t wait...

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Post by corsair on Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:44 am

That looks excellent!!

I still have plenty of locking plates, yes...

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Post by knicelyr on Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:47 am

Are you super attached to the locking bits you sent?
Can I adjust those and send this one to you for testing?
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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:16 pm

John,
Would you like a test drive?

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Post by knicelyr on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:33 am

Many thanks to John for sending me the resin bendmaster deluxe string lock.  There are a few small defects I noticed after molding that are appearing in the final piece.  

When I was making my wax copies I noticed them and thought it was my wax injector. Anyway I am going to make another mold, I can fix those in John's original with some clay, however, I would really like an original with the square middle bit and the shims if possible.  

Does anyone have one that they would be willing to loan me so I can cast from an original?
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Post by Barry on Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:20 pm

Great job Rick! sunny
I have a feeling that the locking plates will be a big "seller", everyone seems to lose those littlle buggers!

I believe I've already mentioned this at the outset of these projects, but if you are wanting to establish a side hustle business I'm happy to promote all your bits and bobs on our website.

Your chances of getting rich are slim but you should be able to recover your material costs at least. And I could easily see it expanding to include other Matsumoku products and other "orphaned" or fringe brands out there. . . Parker, Ovation, Danelectro, to name a few.

Just PM me when you're ready. Wink

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Post by knicelyr on Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:25 pm

PM Sent

I would be happy just to make up the cost of having fun Smile
But mostly I know how frustrating it has been trying to get a hold of the parts I was missing.  So my main agenda would be to have stuff available for others restorations.
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:28 pm

I saw a post where someone has a machine shop make the FT string lock.

Did they have a cad drawing for that?
Does anyone know if any parts have cad drawings available?
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Post by corsair on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:24 am

Nothing wrong with those, man - epic!! The ends that are poking through the bottom?? I'd drill into the headstock to fit them, rather than grind the bolts down!!

I'd be ecstatic to test drive them, Rick!!

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Post by Barry on Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:59 am

knicelyr wrote:I saw a post where someone has a machine shop make the FT string lock.

Did they have a cad drawing for that?
Does anyone know if any parts have cad drawings available?
Can you reference the actual post Rick? That would help.
Your best bet is to contact that poster with your query.

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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:01 am

Okay,
I will find it, I think it was quite old...
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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:20 am

Here is the link I found, its back from 2011.
Looks like he was also making some parts for the bridge...

http://westone.forumotion.com/t2545-locking-nut-complete-sucess-see-photos?highlight=locking+nut
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Post by Barry on Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:39 am

No mention of CAD drawings in that post. I suspect that parts were made by a machine shop from paper based sketches.
But try contacting rebuild and see if he can help out. He hasn't been active for some time though.

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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:51 am

He left his number in the post, I called and left a message, so lets see Smile

I have a customer that is willing to help me CAD the string locks, so lets see.

I think I am just being anal about it... John is going to test drive the bendmaster deluxe one.

My concern is that the locking nuts have to be shaved down slightly...

If I can cad them and 3D print them a tad bigger, I can make a mold that accounts for the shrinkage...  Again, its so minute that even the holes line up with the old holes on the headstock...
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Post by corsair on Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Let's not lose sight of the fact that we now have a source for replacement stringlock bases!!!
I think that's wonderful!

I'm pretty sure I've got an OEM centre square locking plate somewhere; I'll hunt it down and fire it at you.

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Post by knicelyr on Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:43 pm

Here goes Smile

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Post by Barry on Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Beauty.
I'll drink to that ! Drink Beer

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Post by knicelyr on Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:32 pm

Okay, definitely not the most efficient way to make these bits, but it will have to do for now...

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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:05 pm

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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:30 pm

Locked and loaded!

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Post by corsair on Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:10 pm

Awesome!!

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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:25 am

Holy crap! Had no idea you'd done the deluxe base too, sterling job that man! 
I may just tap you for one as my bmd base has stripped threads and I fitted helicoils but it wasn't the best job I've ever done Very Happy

You'll be putting me out of business with those plates Very Happy Very Happy
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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:29 am

That is NOT the way to do the plates... lol
I would like to have a press punch made to do our plates.

I have a beta Deluxe base I can send you, sending Johns out Monday.
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Post by knicelyr on Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:48 am

Idea on the tenancy to strip...  What if we had on that extended the string depth, this would require drilling holed into the headstock to accommodate the depth though...

Thoughts?
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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:04 pm

A longer bolt solves the stripping out issue, 11mm iirc for the E/A lock and the standard 8mm for the others
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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:08 pm

Or how about raising the inside of the base, doing without the shim for the bmd and the lower plate on the ft, and having the thread go the full length? Bypassing the need to drill out the base and headstock.
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Post by corsair on Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:35 am

Why does the BD need those bloody shims?! Perhaps the designers were afraid that the muck metal base would wear too quickly under the steel strings??

Damian?

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Post by Westbone on Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:57 am

Yep not the best design but it works.
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:40 pm

Is it supposed to have a recessed back to go over the plate like in this photo from ebay?

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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:06 pm

No, the plate is short and butts up to the lock base
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:09 pm

so would this be a good buy to buy it to copy parts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westone-Spectrum-Series-II-Guitar-Locking-tremelo-Red-Finish/163930494573?hash=item262b04d66d:g:bCkAAOSwRFldUxbW
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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:20 pm

It's ok, a pretty basic model but looks very tidy. 
The neck on these are incredibly comfortable, thin and with a 12" or bigger radius. 
Pickups are mediocre at best. 
Shipping to USA will be pricey
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:22 pm

Yea shipping looks like more than the guitar.
I guess I can wait it out for a local one.

I have a project coming up that I want do use the chrome parts on...
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Post by corsair on Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:16 pm

Mate... they're a great little guitar - I have one and love it to bits!! 

However, yes; a good source for BMD parts; it's even got the OEM middle lock plate!!

Yes; that TRC on my late model Westones has a slight recess on the underside to allow the truss rod space...

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Post by corsair on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:17 pm

An update here...

... a little parcel from the US in the post  and lookie here; Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock bases - 1 natural aluminium and one anodized black - with sets of cast alloy locking pieces.
 

Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock base. 112


Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock base. 212

The quality of these pieces is utterly superb; I'll find a guitar on which to test 'em out shortly, but I thought y'all might like to see what Rick's been up to...

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Post by corsair on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:19 pm

... and a couple more...

Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock base. 311


Bendmaster Deluxe stringlock base. 412


I think we may have a winner!!

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Post by knicelyr on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:07 am

I can't wait to see one of them on a guitar!
I have the other one on both of my dynasty's, so nice to have a string lock again on my restoration!

I made a failed attempt at pouring them out of stainless this last weekend Sad

However I still had the mold ready so I still did the pour out of aluminum.  I made 7 of them, and these I did some repair on the wax for those couple areas I was not happy with.  Still have to finish them up.

I am curious as to how they hold up to ham fisting...   Also have a couple of ideas on how to make the threads stronger.

1. Make a recess so that the bottom accepts a stainless nut.
2. Drill out the bottom to accept a threaded stainless tube.
3. Figure out how to pour them out of stainless.

Option 1 & 2 - Either epoxy them in or actually make them part of the mold.  Titanium maybe too?

I have a customer that has offered to do a cad drawing of these for me.  I think I am going to ask him to do a couple. One as id, One with the shim void filled in and another for the deluxe that has that area to accept a nut.

I would like an original one made in metal because I do not know what the bottom is supposed to look like, John's piece was awesome to make this mold from and it works just fine. But while I have the offer for FREE cad drawings I would like to have the bottom the way the original piece is.

My goal is to make up for the 1%-ish reduction in size.  If it's even that much...  The locking bits are a tad tight, but the holes seem to line up...

Anyway once I have everything in CAD I can use a 3D printer to make the various masters and also have a punch die made for the locking bits.  However I do not have the square middle locking bit.  I have my eye out for a donor guitar, but as of yet I have not found one Sad There was one at my local music go round when I started my restore, but then I didn't know anything about them...  

Anyway,
I would like some opinions on my thoughts and possibly a loaner piece with the square bit.  

The loaner of the donor gets a cloner too Smile

John do you have an issue with me using the one you sent me with my customer? I would guess they would have to have it for awhile to get the cad done.  Once I have the cad I wont need to have an original/master around.  I can print them at will Smile
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Post by Barry on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:28 am

@Rick, just amazingly good work!
And so badly needed for these old guitars too. Love Flag

@John..love your new Avatar. Thumb Up
Remember it growing up, one of my favourite prop driven craft along with the Spitfire.
Versatile and beautiful.

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Post by Adey on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:49 am

Rick,

You have done an amazing job with re-manufacturing these. A lovely bit of practical engineering. I love it.

I am definitely on the list for one for my Pantera, which has the Kahler Quick-Release string lock (which doesn't really work well due to the string angles on the skinnier strings...)
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Post by Adey on Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:55 am

Barry wrote:@John..love your new Avatar. Thumb Up
Remember it growing up, one of my favourite prop driven craft along with the Spitfire.
Versatile and beautiful.

The guy I sit next to at work spent part of his bonus last year on a flight in a original Spitfire that had been converted into a two-seater (with the double bubble cockpit).

He got to set off from the airfield at HMS Daedalus in Lee-on-Solent, off round the Isle of Wight (off the south coast of UK), do some loops and barrel rolls and back to terra firma. The plane had a 360 degree camera fitted to it so he had a record of not just what was outside, but also how he reacted.

Brilliant!!!
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