Prices....

... on the old eBay are just nuts; I was just browsing the American site - because there's bugger-all Westone on the Aussie one!! - and was shocked at the prices that are being asked for Spectrums! And there's one bloke selling an XA1220 neck for $99 without any of the kit; no machines, stringlocks and TRC.... I'm staggered!

I've realized this as well, i think the word is getting out . They are great guitars and its nice to see the recognition but up go the prices. Electras seem to be going up too. It seems like alot of new members have joined the forum lately, another sign of Westones rising popularity.

The traffic/bandwidth on Westone.info has gone up too.

When I took over the domain it could go for almost the whole month before it hit its 3GB bandwidth limit, now it hits it at around the 11th of the month, and that is even with some of the traffic being shared by Barry's WestoneGuitars iteration of the data.

Also, I tend to get at least 4 or 5 Westone items showing up on my eBay 'remembered search' emails on a daily basis.

I am looking with interest to see if that '9th Rail Bass' goes for anything like his asking price, because, that will mean at least a 30% price increase on what I bought last year. Obviously, with that said, something is only worth what YOU can sell (or wish to buy) it for.

Maybe the 'exit from the recession' is happening and people are starting to spend 'disposable income' on frivolities such as guitars?

Well Ebay`s price are not helping my local selling adds any since people tend to use it as a price guide... Just recently, I was interested in a guitar local to me and was negotiating with the seller, and right before we came to a compromise, he slammed it on Ebay.... he then told me I could have it at my offerend price if it did not sell it with ebay...

He got about 25% more then what we had agreed upon..... So I did not get the guitar....

I only takes one nutjob out in that big world web that wants it more then you....

It would be interesting to know how many folks on this forum bid on any given ebayed westone. With this info, we would then be able to determine if this forum has the capacity of lowering the prices

It is a shame in that a lot of the pleasure of buying a guitar is the find itself. It's not the kill, but the thrill of the chase as the song goes. I always find it a pleasure to discover some old forgotten treasure that nobody else is interested in. This is hardly ever the case with Westones anymore. I have however noticed that there is more margin with "similar" companies like Aria for instance, or Fernandes; I believe it is because there is still a confusion in people's minds about the good old Japanese ones and the more recent Chinese or Korean made.

Usually, if I find a 'tone on the 'bay, I see if anyone has posted it here, and then ask either if anyone else is thinking on bidding on it, so that we don't bid against each other, pointlessly raising the bid. That said, I have only bought one 'tone on the 'bay, my Rail, and there was no one challenging it for me, it appears, and the seller was just down the road from me. I think that I did state my interest here, which may have helped keeping the prices down... difficult to say as people don't tend to shout about it!

The other side of that coin, is, if it is local to me, and the seller is not willing to ship to anyone who is interested, I can 'aid and abet' the needy 'Toner whilst keeping the prices down...

DreamRaven wrote:Usually, if I find a 'tone on the 'bay, I see if anyone has posted it here, and then ask either if anyone else is thinking on bidding on it, so that we don't bid against each other, pointlessly raising the bid. That said, I have only bought one 'tone on the 'bay, my Rail, and there was no one challenging it for me, it appears, and the seller was just down the road from me. I think that I did state my interest here, which may have helped keeping the prices down... difficult to say as people don't tend to shout about it!

The other side of that coin, is, if it is local to me, and the seller is not willing to ship to anyone who is interested, I can 'aid and abet' the needy 'Toner whilst keeping the prices down...

Excellent, i think we should all work together to keep the prices down. I know Ice posts when he's interested, and we should all keep eachother in the loop on evilbay when thinking about bidding. I haven't bought a new Westie since my Rainbow a year or so ago, i try to avoid the bay and find local deals.

I agree we should all work together to avoid bid wars etc. I also have ran across a few ebay items that were bid up very high by another bidder with very little feedback and then when I did not bid higher and that bidder won the bid it was later relisted agin for non payment. I suspect there are a few devious individuals that will open a bogus ebay account just to run the bid up when they know someone is interested. That is just my opinion but alas I do also believe the word is getting out on how great these instruments are as almost all of Uncle Matts instruments are going up including Electras, Aria's, etc.

I suspect there are a few devious individuals that will open a bogus ebay account just to run the bid up when they know someone is interested.

Shill bidding happens across the board on the 'bay, as does sniping, although I have only come across shill bidding on a low percentage of auctions that I have been involved in.

The rule of 'I ain't paying any more than £XXX' is easy to state, but if the item is a 'MUST HAVE IT' it is difficult! There will always be another along in a minute!

That said, a certain guitar pedal that I have been interested in for a good 6 months appears to have a 'fixed price' across the world, new OR used that certainly doesn't appear to be affected by supply, or demand (there appear to be a hell of lot more for sale, then get sold, but still the price stays the same)... It certainly ain't worth to me what people are asking, especially when I can pick it up brand new at my local git emporium for the same price, without postage and packing... I digress...!

DreamRaven wrote:

I suspect there are a few devious individuals that will open a bogus ebay account just to run the bid up when they know someone is interested.

Shill bidding happens across the board on the 'bay, as does sniping, although I have only come across shill bidding on a low percentage of auctions that I have been involved in.

It happens often. And it's slick. They'll use friends to bid it up and even buy it sometimes, just to sell again later at a higher price.

Here's how it works:
Seller posts his item, his cohort bids it way up and wins it.
Seller waits a little, lists the item again.
When the prospective buyer searches "completed listings" to see what the last similar item sold for, he'll see that it "sold" for X amount which was bogus.
That same prospective buyer bids high and wins the auction at an inflated price, thinking he got a fair "Deal".

It happens all the time. These guys know how to work the system.

I tend to agree with all that has been said here, but are we not all a little guilty of raising our own prices when we decide to sell our westies?

Sgt. Vimes wrote:I tend to agree with all that has been said here, but are we not all a little guilty of raising our own prices when we decide to sell our westies?

Probably, but it's more likely that, like Ibanez a year or two back, word is out that these are a good instrument for a reasonable price and we certainly don't help keep prices down by singing their praises to all and sundry, eh!!

I just found that the price of the Spectrums was an awful lot higher than I remember; certainly an awful lot more than I ever paid for any of mine....

Not me, I havent sold a Westie.

grogg wrote:Not me, I havent sold a Westie.

nor me!...................yet

hobster wrote: ...I know Ice posts when he's interested, and we should all keep each other in the loop on evilbay when thinking about bidding.

I have found it to be advantageous to stay out of another's way and all it takes is a pm or two after posting an intent on a board. It has worked both ways for me on several occasions, both with Arthur on the Electra Forums and BrainFertilizer here at Westone as two recent examples.

I have lessened (somewhat) my ebay activities until just of late and also stumbled on a few deals out of the blue as well which has helped to minimize my time on ebay.

As an example a coworker of mine in a conversation last week dropped a bomb completely out of left field about an old "Chuck Berry" guitar at his parents house he is trying to get rid of.

They bought it for him in about 1975 he remembers and he played it all of 6 weeks or so. Came with a case and a matching amp and has been in the closet of his old room ever since. They want it out and he knows nobody who plays and nothing about it other than it is red. (Got your attention now, Chad?)

He knows very vaguely of my interest in guitars and asked if I knew anyone who would want it. He only wants $50 for it all since he thought I could double my money on it if I didn't like it.

Have I strung you all along for long enough now or should I go 5 more paragraphs?

I'll cut to the chase I guess and just say.... I should be posting pictures this Friday night.







But ... somethin' tells me I'm into something good...

I also think that prices are higher as a lot of us were teens when these guitars were around, and now in our older age, some are more comfortable with finances and can afford the luxury. The net makes it easier to find what we wanted then, but couldn't afford when we were young. And with the competition of bidding, some are still willing to pay to get what they always wanted. I remember seeing the X350 ads in guitar magazines when I first started playing in '84 and thought...cool, a tiger striped guitar. I had no idea of what flamed maple was or what the guitar was like...but...I wanted it. I never tried to get one till last year - now I have 2.

I find the same with concerts - when I was young, I was willing to sit at the back of Giants Stadium to see the farewell '85 Who tour (even though they toured many times after) for really cheap. But if I want to see a show for a band I love now, I can afford the first 5 rows even thought it is way too expensive. I could go to a show in '84 for 30 bucks and sit far away, and now spend 500 to be close to the same musicians. Scary but it all has to do with what I could afford at the time.

I do agree though that this forum has pushed up prices unintentionally. Some folks have a guitar - search the net - see prices listed on here and run with it. I have been lucky and all of my older and rarer guitars have been great deals with the exception of my last 350 - I know I paid too much for that, but am happy to have it.

Oh well, we have some guitars we love, and hopefully we can all find that hidden gem for cheap - my 2 cents

i guess i am the weirdo here, but i love ebay.

i have lived in the SF bay area for 14 years and i have acquired 5 westones thru craigslist.

on the other hand, on ebay i have picked up well over 50 matsumoku guitars. it is only thru ebay that it is possible for me to have collected these many, wonderful instruments.

because some of the rare westones have passed through ebay, the awareness has been raised for many who may have one stashed away somewhere. they want to get some of that good money too. we have all seen listings with a little info and a lot of wishful thinking about how 'rare' a guitar it is. (somebody say #9?).

i think the prices need to stretch out higher and lower actually. a complete, undamaged westone should be worth a good price, but when the string locks are gone (almost always), the whammy bar is gone (almost always), the pickups have been 'upgraded', the finish looks like it was hit with buckshot,,,, well then it may still be a fine guitar, but not really fair to ask a premium price simply because of the name on the headstock. they didn't really make many 'rare' guitars, but an undamaged, unmolested one is rare these days and does deserve a better price.

the prices should get refined over time as more people recognize the quality of what matsumoku produced, but people should also know that they made a lot of guitars. and since the original market was mostly middle price range, it is fair that they should still be in that range for a good quality complete guitar, considerably less for anything missing or damaged.

gittarasaurus wrote:i guess i am the weirdo here, but i love ebay.


on the other hand, on ebay i have picked up well over 50 matsumoku guitars. it is only thru ebay that it is possible for me to have collected these many, wonderful instruments.

I have no problem with Ebay either but......lets see a group shot of the 50 guitars eh!

Yeah Mike, go dig out the W I I I I I D E lens...

Iceman wrote:Yeah Mike, go dig out the W I I I I I D E lens...

I second that emoticon! (did you see what I did thar? )

And Iceman? Yo' better let that cat out of the bag soon, especially if it only cost you fifdy dolla!

Check the #9 thread for an update on that!

Iceman wrote:Yeah Mike, go dig out the W I I I I I D E lens...

I 3rd the emoticon....

gittarasaurus you`re MAA material. ... 50 Mats is something.....

Ice my man... show us that $50 treasure you got!...

one of these days i'll get em all together for some pics. that's a bunch of hardware to move around.


when ever i hear that comment (2nd that...), it takes me back to the days when.....

2nd that emtion - motown meets san francisco

everybody DANCE!!!!

I am not knocking Thunder guitars here but...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westone-Thunder-II-Version-2-Electric-Guitar-with-Original-Case-Matsumoku-MIJ-/270922878307?pt=Guitar&hash=item3f14430d63

I am correct in exclaiming "WUT THE..." on this one right? Never heard anything but praise about them but seriously, come on now...

No pics on the Fitty Gitty as I am going to forever think of it as. It is at my luthier for a thorough going over. Playability is surprisingly sound for having been stored leaning up and under full tension since about 1977 or so, but the neck did have some questions I was unable to answer. A week of rehab may clear things up some. I should get it back Friday at the latest.

It's not like an x350ma or anything super rare, just a really cool ES-335ish copy from a minor label imported by C. Bruno & Sons back in the day.

Prospects of it being Mats are not looking promising right now but I need to do more research. The neck construction is the most definitive clue at this point.

Jesus me an Duofuzz at the Guitar show in Gateshead yesterday an so a very good 82 ish Thunder 2A in good condition for £150:00
Though I did buy a 82 Concord 1 from the show for £120:00 which i'm going to post pictures of soon..
There was another 82 Concord in red for £99:00 but plumped for the sunny blue one instead...( Well Greenish Sunny Blue)
Normally i watch ebay for the guitars but the prices are wacked up to high for my liking an try Gummtree or local shops an shows..
My Aria Urchin deluxe (£250:00) an Spectrum DX (£75:00) were off Gummtree an the Concord at the guitar show shows sometimes that the internet might not be the best place sometimes to find what your after....
But it is fun......

damnit the guitar show here in gateshead??!! you would think someone would have told me!.......£50 says the wife knew and kept quiet!

Sgt. Vimes wrote:damnit the guitar show here in gateshead??!! you would think someone would have told me!.......£50 says the wife knew and kept quiet!

So just an update here (finally) as promised on the lowest price I've paid so far...

Turns out my co-worker tried to be Keef for around 16 weeks instead of 6, but it was back in 1975 instead of 1977 anyway (his mom actually had found the original bill of sale on it). I posted a thread over at Guitar Gallery in their "unknown / other" section so y'all can follow the guessing game there as it unfolds. Still not certain if it's Matsumoku, but Matsumoto almost certainly is the area it was born in.

Oh right, the link...

http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8642

http://torchharrison.hubpages.com/hub/Japanese-Manufacturers-of-Made-In-Japan-Badged-Guitars-from-1950-to-1980

Have a butchers at the above site, you;ll find your answer.

Thanks Damian! I have been over at Torch's blog with fair frequency lately to reference a number of off brands I seem to bump into. What is the general consensus as to his accuracy? I never can find where he publishes the documentation he has to back up his statements.

The construction of the neck (3 piece) is what I am hanging most of my hopes of it being Mats on, but the neck join on it I've not seen on any other models. It is actually 4 screws (opposing pairs) with the hidden pair accessed via the removal of the neck pickup...

Ice

I have replied over in Matsumoku.org. Neck joint is typical of Univox some Univox and Aria Les Pauls and if you are really lucky, they look like they might be Maxon pickups.

Hoax

Didn't you post a similar neck join recently hoax? somewhere.

Ice' you want a little Jap to come up and tell you so...Lok whoo Fook... was a local Chinese takeaway, might have been M.I.C.

Westbone wrote:Didn't you post a similar neck join recently hoax? somewhere.

Ice' you want a little Jap to come up and tell you so...Lok whoo Fook... was a local Chinese takeaway, might have been M.I.C.

Yeah Damian - Neck joint was the same as the Jedson Les Paul which I have now moved on. The Jedson was identical to Univox and Aria badged models.

Hoax

While I realize you two are ahead of me in timezones no way it is Tuesday evening there yet...