Westone.info CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo........................

chaypup wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo........................

There may be a glimmer of hope yet remaining. ..

http://forum.westoneguitars.net/t2061-westone-spares#16718

Man this sux. He could have left the info online at least. Or open a mirror site.

Well, it appears that the site is gone for good. This really sux, but i think its time to stop mourning and try to get a new one started. Here is a cool acoustic catalog i found online:

http://www.oldguitar.jp/catalog/westone.htm

I have a few catalogs i can scan but i know nothing about websites. Hopefully we can get something going! There must be computer nerds on here somewhere.

Can't we just have separate sections on these forums. one for wiring diagrams and one for catalogue scans? I have the 1981 catalogue scans.

Here's a taster.... and hey it's spidey2's Thunder 1


HEY LOL
do you have a high res scan of this?? want to make a 8x10 of it :oops

Hey fellas, thanks for the posts and links, but before we go off on a tangerine and this thing gets out of hand can we please do at least one thing?
Rather than starting up several threads on this topic can we consolidate any input under the existing "sticky":
STICKY THREAD

I know John (Corsair) is working hard behind the scenes, and I and others are attempting to put some structure in place to accommodate all the information that we know is out there in our forum population. But first, we need to know what we're going to do with it all before we get deluged. I'm sure we'll get some direction from John soon.

Meantime if I may be so bold as to ask on his behalf and that of the Mods, please start sniffing around and locating your Westone pictures, Westone scans and Westone forum links. Trust me, you'll be called on very soon to send it in. Then the work can begin to build a bigger and better site that we control!

Cheers!
Barry

Check your Temporary Internet Files if you were on westone.info recently the pics you were looking at will still be in there

Good suggestion!

Now, here's an interesting little snippet from one of the Electra boys replying to me over there....

Have you been in contact with the Admin? I was watching a "Dimension IV" auction last week, and the seller was using a bunch of links from the Westone site, about four days into it, all the linked images at the bottom of the auction had been hacked to show some very objectionable pornography. The hacking was done to the Westone site, not the auction, so maybe this incident had something to do with the site going down? Maybe not... Mike.

...sort of puts a new spin on things, doesn't it!! Just something to keep in mind, I reckon.....

That's very disturbing news.
If the originating source of the pix was on on this site and was tampered with, that means someone has hacked the Admin or Mod password. In most places around the world this is of course, illegal activity, and punishable. If the pix were hosted externally it is possible that that originating source was compromised and has nothing to do with this forum.

Either way, sadly, hacking a users login password on a forum is depressingly easy for someone with the motivation and minimal technical skills, and difficult to trace. This could be a complete outsider doing it for a prank, or someone closer to the vest. (And I caution members to be careful about publicly citing any individual here folks, there are libel laws too!) Or it may just be the random workings of a malicious web bot.

Let this be warning to us all not to get complacent or careless with passwords, email addresses, etc.

(John, I'll send you a PM on this topic.)

Barry wrote:If the originating source of the pix was on on this site and was tampered with, that means someone has hacked the Admin or Mod password

I thought he was talking about images from the Westone.Info site not these forums

Barry wrote:That's very disturbing news.

Either way, sadly, hacking a users login password on a forum is depressingly easy for someone with the motivation and minimal technical skills, and difficult to trace.

Let this be warning to us all not to get complacent or careless with passwords, email addresses, etc.

Any steps you would recommend that we forumites could take as extra precautions from this? I am pretty careful about cycling passwords, randomizing, etc. Other than the usual commonsense defenses?

bowenjaybee wrote:...I thought he was talking about images from the Westone.Info site not these forums

That could be a possibility but if the "info" site was still up and running, you'd also see the same porn on the Info site when you called up the same page...so not likely.

If the auction took place during the "page redirect" time period, again you'd see the notice about spares closing shop. There was no access to the site content, so the naughty pix likely originated elsewhere.

All i got was the parts page for the last week all links went right to the spares page

Barry wrote:

bowenjaybee wrote:...I thought he was talking about images from the Westone.Info site not these forums

That could be a possibility but if the "info" site was still up and running, you'd also see the same porn on the Info site when you called up the same page...so not likely.

If the auction took place during the "page redirect" time period, again you'd see the notice about spares closing shop. There was no access to the site content, so the naughty pix likely originated elsewhere.

Iceman wrote:...Any steps you would recommend that we forumites could take as extra precautions from this? I am pretty careful about cycling passwords, randomizing, etc. Other than the usual commonsense defenses?

The usual advice is make your password a little tougher to figure out by employing numbers as well as letters, and use capital letters as well as lower case, sometimes referred to as camelback lettering.
Another simple trick is to substitute numbers for letters: 3 for E, 5 for S, 0 for O, etc. You can even use the "bang" (exclamation point !) as a part of your PW.

edit:
I should add here that although it's good practice to employ these techniques as described, the "attack" on forums is generally against the Admin or Mods since they have access to the entire site. Nevertheless you should still take precautions to protect your identity.

Found this site in my bookmarks: http://www.reocities.com/Paris/Lights/6961/westone/index.html

2nd best but it's better than nothing. If we all contribute to this site with our pix and knowledge it could become a replacement for westone.info.

munkieNL wrote:...2nd best but it's better than nothing.

By all means refer to it but it's still not owned by the forum members here. The plan is to build our own. Contributing there means you're giving your information to "outsiders".

Barry wrote:

munkieNL wrote:...2nd best but it's better than nothing.

By all means refer to it but it's still not owned by the forum members here. The plan is to build our own. Contributing there means you're giving your information to "outsiders".

And it's not very reliable either; go to the "Pantera" page'; it's not spelled right, and the blurb refers to another guitar than the X350MA pictured...

We - well, Barry and I!! - are thinking that making our own model index/catalogue with direct involvement with the owners of the guitars is the way forward. I haven't decided what to actually 'do' at this point as I'm very very new at this stuff and thankfully Barry's holding my hand... a lot!! Look, there's bods in here like Damian, Martin and Jesper who build guitars and people like Steve who build parts and make stuff to keep their gear going as well as all you keen blokes out there; I think we can do this, eh; just in what sort of format is the issue at hand.

Update!

http://www.westone.info/

I'm afraid that's just sad...if you don't want to share, then why put it on the web? For all that were abusing the content, there were many others who just enjoyed the work he'd done and referenced it occasionally.

Ah, well... onwards; it's a brave new world out there...

Withdrawal pains. Nobody's paying attention now.

Look, anyone who puts a web site on the Internet and does not restrict access via login and encryption has de facto placed the content in the public domain.

There is no, repeat, no such thing as a "personal" i.e. private, web site when it is searchable and reachable by every search engine web bot and human surfer in the world! To start crying now about people actually reading and referencing the information is incredibly naive. If you want a personal reference you make a scrap book, you don't put it on the Internet and expect no one to notice.

I have to say that personally I just could not take to Thorn and I have told him as much in the past. I found him rude and abrasive and totally lacking in interpersonal skills. I believe, that, in itself, was a symptom of his obsessive focus, which tells another story.

I have bit my tongue on this one as I did not want to prejudice our forums endeavours to obtain copies of his files, but I am now glad that we no longer appear to be treading on egg shells.

I actually feel sorry for the guy and a little ashamed of myself for developing the attitude I have for him as I do not believe that he can help the way he is.

Graham

I remember the first time I realised Thorn was the Westone.info creator... it's an interesting read. Link

Very well put Graham. Hopefully he can find some measure of peace.

Looking forward to the adventure ahead as well.

Updated again on the 10th. Looking for a host now as well, or so it would appear?

http://www.westone.info/

Would it be foolish to suggest that this address could be suitable as the home of "our" new archives?

It certainly would be heavily bookmarked already worldwide wouldn't it?

Oh brother, this has now become a soap opera. Personally I'm tired of it all.

bowenjaybee wrote:I remember the first time I realised Thorn was the Westone.info creator... it's an interesting read. Link

Interesting thread indeed. I think Thorn was proud of his work and didn't like people on ebay & things like that using photos from his site/and quoted info (just my opinion) - but ya know he loved his Westones and did do us all a great service.

While I wish he kept the site going, it is really his perogative to take his property off the web. In the long run, we all looked at his ite and learned a lot from it.

I have no malice to Thorn and wish him the best. So rather than put the negative on his site or actions, we need to put the collective info from this group into someting all can use. I've already seen some post their old ad's and catalogs...soo it's really a question of who wants to be in charge?

"In charge" is a bit strong, but I don't mind collating and trying to put stuff together, BUT - and it's a big but! - I will need to call on those people with skills better than mine at web design etc. because I really have no bloody idea of how to go about any of this. I have a forumite already holding my hand but it's unfair to him to expect him to do everything that is required! Besides, I reckon we'd all like to be a part of this, yes??! It is quite a formidable task that we'll be taking on but one which could be ultimately quite rewarding.

First things first, I think we should let the dust settle and see what's what. If David is giving the .info site up, then I'll talk to him and see what the story is there; does anyone have other suggestions along the lines of what sort of format this catalogue should take - I assume it shall be some kind of database??

Just putting it out there, I'd be willing to purchase a .com or .info long term and give the password to the new webmasters. May I suggest a paypal "donate now" button to pay the yearly hosting / bandwidth fees? Otherwise we'd have to go into telethon mode when the yearly bill comes due.

Oh, yeah; I'd totally forgotten about that button; thanks, fella!! PM forthcoming....

Guys

I am a web designer and I also have a hosting service.

Has anyone got any feedback from Thorn about gaining his content and possibly his domain? I can take control of them, host it as it is, and do anything and everything required to bring it back, whilst at the same time dealing with hosting costs (the usual way is to advertise my company whilst doing it).

Thorn sorted me out a lot of stuff for my Thunder III and I found him both an easy guy to converse with, along with his expertise with the hardware and knowledge of the Westone guitar oeuvre.

Each to their own, and I am sure he has a whole bunch of reasons for his actions and I believe that all of them are valid.

Yes, people may have linked to his content (which will have put his bandwidth costs through the roof). What I suspect he did with people displaying his images on their eBay auctions is to deal with something called 'hotlinking'. You can set a server to display something else when the image is being called from somewhere that is not the original domain that the image is hosted on. Quite often you will see some static image that says 'The image is being hotlinked, please don't', or 'Stop stealing my bandwidth'. Alternatively, distasteful porn images can be used, but that usually means that the person dealing with the hotlinking is really at the end of their tether.

Anyhoo. If no one has asked Thorn for his site content, as he mentions currently on the site, I will.

Sounds like things are falling into place. I have emailed David about receiving a copy of the backup files and he has responded. I was rather vague in my request and David had some questions as to the particulars of the site which I hope I have just now answered in a reply. Like I stated above I will purchase a domain name long term and as for hosting and site production it sounds as if DreamRaven has that covered. I had suggested to David that I would use www.godaddy.com because they offer 10 GB of space with unlimited bandwidth and 100 emails account for $4.99 USD per month. Possibly lock in at that price for multiple years. But DreamRaven beat that price with $0. Either Way we must continue forward even if we must start with nothing. And this is what I humbly bring to the table.

The ideal would be to use the westone.info domain if we can at all, as it already has a Google position and links to it in existence all over the place.

I would posit that I can register the domain for a very low price, which would also be covered by my company, if I am allowed to place respectable and discrete notification of my company's involvement where possible.

So, emails, hosting, domain for nothing, along with web development, where necessary, I can cover. I would propose that content would be covered by people who have gained 'Moderator' status on this site, and we would discuss that as and when necessary.

I also wanted to make the point known that I am not trying to 'take control' of anything, just helping out where I can. I want the information, expertise and content to be in the hands of those who care about it and to allow other newbies (such as I was) to be able to learn about the Westie legend.

'Creative Commons' is where it is at.

I have also sent an email to Thorn asking about the content, and the domain. As yet, no response, but I am also sensitive to the fact that I do not want him 'bombarded' by everyone. So, if he doesn't get back to me about the domain, but supplies someone with the content, I can get a temporary location for the content which we can map any chosen domain to at a later date.

boutjp97 wrote:I had suggested to David that I would use www.godaddy.com because they offer 10 GB of space with unlimited bandwidth and 100 emails account for $4.99 USD per month. Possibly lock in at that price for multiple years.

GoDaddy recently shut down a friend's website without any warning and refused to put it back up unless he paid $200 because he "didn't clear his emails and it was a danger to our server" or something crazy along those lines. I would not suggest GoDaddy. DreamRaven's solution sounds very appealing though!

I forgot to put "Avoid GoDaddy like the plague" to my above post.

I have had to deal with them off and on over the years, and it is always like pulling teeth.

Many thanks to DreamRaven and boutjp97 for stepping up with your kind offers of assistance. Much appreciated!

However, at this stage I think it's OK to reveal that there are some significantly positive developments which have materialized "behind the scenes" which will ultimately result in forum members having access to their own Westone data, without interference or constant threat of withdrawal by outside parties.

I'll leave it to John (Corsair) to make the appropriate announcement when the time is right.
Meantime two requests please:

• Cease attempts at contacting the owner of the westone.info site. That is not going to be the source of our salvation.
  
• Sharpen up your photography skills, your schematic diagram skills, and if you already have extensive posts on repair, restoration or history of your Westie's please accumulate the URL's for specific reference or inclusion in the new site

Thanks!

DreamRaven wrote:I forgot to put "Avoid GoDaddy like the plague" to my above post.
I have had to deal with them off and on over the years, and it is always like pulling teeth.

Um, careful who you slag off, WestoneGuitars.net is hosted by GoDaddy!

Not slagging them off, just relaying my experiences with them!

It is plausible that they have provided a good service. I guess I usually get involved when they don't fit the idea that my client has that they should...

Barry wrote:Many thanks to DreamRaven and boutjp97 for stepping up with your kind offers of assistance. Much appreciated!

However, at this stage I think it's OK to reveal that there are some significantly positive developments which have materialized "behind the scenes" which will ultimately result in forum members having access to their own Westone data, without interference or constant threat of withdrawal by outside parties.

I'll leave it to John (Corsair) to make the appropriate announcement when the time is right.
Meantime two requests please:

• Cease attempts at contacting the owner of the westone.info site. That is not going to be the source of our salvation.
  
• Sharpen up your photography skills, your schematic diagram skills, and if you already have extensive posts on repair, restoration or history of your Westie's please accumulate the URL's for specific reference or inclusion in the new site

Thanks!

This is good news! I'm glad he's coming around a little, i got that impression from his last post on his website. This is cool, seems like we can all make it work out! The new and improved Westone.info.

I'm glad to read all of this. We can make it on our own, but it sure would be nice to have the scans that the Westone site had, wouldn't it?

Our attitudes aside, it would be good to not speak ill of anyone on here. Our comments can be read by all. Although I do understand that not everyone is a natural mediator and tempers can flare The Spares department was good to me, and it's good to have more friends than enemies. When possible, that is!

But yeah, I'm excited to help build our future also. Thanks again to all spearheading this initiative!

hobster wrote:...This is good news! I'm glad he's coming around a little...

Sorry, you didn't read my post carefully. "He" is not the source of our salvation. All shall be revealed when everything is in place.
Film at eleven.

The Chad wrote:Our attitudes aside, it would be good to not speak ill of anyone on here. Our comments can be read by all. Although I do understand that not everyone is a natural mediator and tempers can flare The Spares department was good to me, and it's good to have more friends than enemies. When possible, that is!

I couldn't have put it better myself. The spares department and the Westie information archive was good to me too. The expertise held there was parallel to that displayed by the members of this site.

This has happened for whatever reason, and those reasons are all valid. RIP westie.info, long live westie.info.

Point taken on web hosting. DreamRaven seems to offer a great resource for a future site. DreamRaven also stated that he can get the domain name cheap (I am still willing to participate should I be needed in any capacity). I am standing by awaiting news / updates.

Congrats DreamRaven. Judging by the announcement I just saw your powers of persuasion fit the bill.

The domain is back among the living.

Well, this is a complete surprise Keiran!
First of all, congratulations on resurrecting the old site. It will make a lot of collectors ad fans very happy I'm sure.

But, as mentioned in previous posts here, and in a PM to you offline, John (Corsair) and I have been working intensely behind the scene to set up a new site at www.westoneguitars.net. From a personal stand point I have spent several long days of work accumulating information and assembling the bones of the new site. So you'll understand if I am more than a little bit pissed as well. Our efforts and time could have been spent doing more important things.

Some notice of intent would have been appreciated, particularly as our plans were already known.

Nice One DreamRaven!!!

Hoax

Barry

If you read further back up this thread, I declared that I had spoken to Thorn and placed a request for the content.

He asked me a couple of questions about my intent, and I in return stated that all I intended to do was to make sure that the content did not die, and hopefully stay on the same domain, if it was available (as I stated in the posts of the thread above). Thorn then said that he was talking to others (maybe John, I don't know, I was not told), and he would make an announcement today.

There was no long drawn out email discussions using my 'powers of persuasion'. I just stated that I appreciated the site, the effort taken to create and curate it, and felt that it should continue.

It was therefore as much of a surprise to me as to you, when I receive an email yesterday with his plans, at the same time as he posted the announcement on the site. I am glad that he gave me the content, which I now have in my possession.

BUT

It is worth making the point that the site that you see on www.westone.info at this point is still nothing to do with me. It is still the site, in the same location, under Thorn's control as it was before. Thorn has just made it available again.

I have to go through the site, as it stands at the moment, check out all the links and files, upload it up to my server, get Thorn to check that there is nothing against his stated wishes on agreement of transfer. Then when that is done, it will not appear under www.westone.info until the end of the month AT LEAST, when Thorn has finished some things that he needs to do, and I can process the transfer.

In my mind I cannot see how this impacts your activity. From what I understood, your endeavours were based around the idea that you were not going to be able or want to use Thorn's information. If anything it might make it easier. I do not know. The site is back up, so the information is available. As stated in posts above, I have no need or wish to 'be in control' and I stated that to Thorn when he asked me the questions. Information wants to be free, and I am no King Cnut. I am happy for that information to be accessible, I would prefer that it wasn't ripped off, and I would also prefer that Thorn is given his due respect for the work carried out to collate the information where suitable, but I also know that trying to do that to users on the internet is like trying to heard cats. If the information is available in multiple places it makes it easier to find.

I do not want to start another discussion about it. Yes, I have the data in a zip file, but there is still work to be done to get it back and correct. I will be carrying that out over the next few weeks, as and when I can.

If there is anything that you need for your endeavours, just come out and ask, and I will do what I can to help. I am not the gatekeeper. I am certainly not trying to piss anyone off, whilst at the same time, I am not able to read people's minds, guess their expectations, or wanting to attempt to divert this situation for my own gain. I have no other personal agenda, other than to get westone.info back up. It has been useful for me, I want it to be useful for similar people. To that end, I think that is pretty much where my efforts in that direction will cease. I do not have the knowledge or inclination to extend the information. I am happy to know as much as I can about my Thunder III and my Rail bass, but I am not interested in developing any more information about the other Westone guitars. They do not hold my interest. I am aware that other people have as much interest in the other guitars in the way that I have interest in mine, hence why I want Thorn's data available. If you wish to do that, go for your life!

Regards
DreamRaven

Great to see the .info site back up and kudos to DR for getting it to where we can access it! Thank you!

I certainly feel for Barry, though, as he has certainly spent an awful lot of time and energy on designing a site which, had .info not been resurrected - and if it's still under the aegis of Thorn in any form, then its continued availability must be questioned, given past events! - would have been our only resource for research. My fervent hope that the .info site will now be a stable platform, accessible to all....

Understandably, feelings will be running a little high in certain quarters but please, people, let's remember that we are all here because we like the instruments made by Westone in the 80's and that, as far as I'm concerned, that's where it starts and ends.

Corsair

I completely agree with you in all points.

As I do not have the full information on Barry's site, I cannot really pass comment one way or the other.

When www.westone.info comes under my control, I will put content in as close to the original format as it was. Yes, I want it to be 'open to all', but that statement is open to interpretation, and when it comes down to it, it will still be under my control, and who knows what I might feel about it in a year's time. Or what may happen that means that opinions will be split about what to do with it. Yes, I am open for discussion, but I am not going to be bullied in it being a particular way, because a couple of parties feel it should. I wanted it to be the same as it was when everyone was using it and were disappointed when it went away. I do not want it so that I can dictate how it should be used or not used. I will place minor controls on hotlinking images, and possibly automatic watermarking, to stop people just grabbing images for fleabay auctions. No one wants their bandwidth abused, but other than that... almost nothing.

If you want another site for research, or to be a particular way, all I can say it, go ahead, make it so, number one. Everyone has as much power as me (or Thorn, or Mark Zuckerburg) to make and control a site and then have full ability to make it how you want it to be

I also believe that there SHOULD be multiple ways of getting the information, which means that no one person (including me) will have the power to say 'it is my ball, and you are not playing'. If all of them exist side by side and link to each other, and possibly share information, the community will build.

As stated before, if you need anything, all you need to do is ask.

DreamRaven