SEP1984 thunder jet ...

the capacitors are now ordered. i've undoubtedly over-engineered them. any old capacitors probably would've done. but i went with the orange drop type.

the rusted screw in the LTD EC-50 neck plate is hanging in there. even with the other 3 screws out and turning the neck plate as much as i can (which isn't far, because of the way the body is shaped at the neck joint) it still isn't budging. if this were a strat it'd be out now.

at long last, the rusted screw in the LTD EC-50 neck plate is out!  i decided to try turning it in the direction that the screw driver had most purchase, which was tighter.  there was a faintly audible crack as the rust between the screw and the neck plate let go.  and it just unscrewed very nicely after that.

so, i've now got a neck plate cushion on the LTD EC-50.  i like to fit these to all my guitars.  here's a couple of photos ...

Why on earth would you go to all that bother to install something that will, in all likelihood, dampen vibration/sustain?


If you're trying to protect the finish from depression damage, I think that horse left the stable long ago. In any event, the "damaged" finish is hidden behind the plate!

Barry wrote:Why on earth would you go to all that bother to install something that will, in all likelihood, dampen vibration/sustain?


If you're trying to protect the finish from depression damage, I think that horse left the stable long ago. In any event, the "damaged" finish is hidden behind the plate!

... emmm? i can see that my modus operandi is still causing some confusion! i will elucidate ...

yesterday my father got hold of the hand drill that i'd used to re-drill the holes for the neck humbucker mounting plate on the thunder jet, put a 4mm drill in the chuck ... and put a hole in the front door, just by the lock. somehow i'd neglected to consider this possibility. needless to say, the hand drill is now safely stashed back in the workshop. life can be interesting - very interesting (if you're up on your ancient chineese curses)!!! ... so, i do this as a distraction from all the craziness in my life. it doesn't have to make sense. that isn't it's purpose.

... now, did you notice that this particular neck plate cushion isn't oblong, or where you just completely overwhelmed by my apparent stupidity?!!!

i've been feeling a little vexed this morning, as i was feeling rather pleased with my efforts last night, not least of all because i modified a standard neck plate cushion to fit the LTD EC-50.

so, i've been giving some thought to this issue of vibration/sustain. but first i need to issue a disclaimer: i'm an aerospace engineer, not a musician. my area of knowledge (digital control system design and development) doesn't necessarily transfer into this area of expertise. that said ...

i actually think that i can get a neck on a guitar tighter with a neck plate cushion, rather than without. my reasoning for this is that with a neck plate cushion the pressure is distributed more evenly. also, the cushion is between the body and the neck plate, and the screws form a very poor vibration path compared to the contact area between the neck and the body. so, what matters here is the pressure that the neck plate can apply to the neck to body joint. and, as i said, the more even that pressure is, the more pressure that can actually be applied.

Makes absolutely no sense to me.
But it's your guitar, so, enjoy your cushion!

monkey wrote:

i actually think that i can get a neck on a guitar tighter with a neck plate cushion, rather than without. my reasoning for this is that with a neck plate cushion the pressure is distributed more evenly. also, the cushion is between the body and the neck plate, and the screws form a very poor vibration path compared to the contact area between the neck and the body. so, what matters here is the pressure that the neck plate can apply to the neck to body joint. and, as i said, the more even that pressure is, the more pressure that can actually be applied.

RUBBISH!!

If the neck screws aren't doing it for you for tightness then rather than a vibration dampening cushion - which are only there for cosmetic purposes! - then consider installing proper neck bolts.
I do think, though, that you're trying to re-invent the wheel and any gains made are likely to be so slight as to be unquantifiable! That said, it is your guitar and your project and if you're having a ball doing this, then have at it!!

Yup.
Either pack the original holes and re-seat the screws, or change to threaded inserts and use actual bolts instead.

Think of it this way: the neck plate is really a big flat washer. Adding another one will not change the pressure except perhaps to reduce it. You are, after all, shortening the length of screw in contact with the neck wood.

please look at the photos. that's not a standard neck plate cushion - i've modified it. i know that you're all struggling with my MO, however, i honestly just don't know how much clearer i can be!

here's another picture of the LTD EC-50 neck plate cushion in situ, with a standard neck plate cushion directly below (or, rather, to the right of) it.  kindly note the nicely shaped lip on the chamfered edge of the cushion ...

I understand perfectly.
How well it is made, and how good it looks, doesn't enter into it.

You're still adding a dampener between the plate and the wood and all the prior comments hold. This is strictly a cosmetic addition. Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. It does nothing for sustain improvement nor would it increase "pressure".

Once again, your guitar, your choice what to do with it so just enjoy it.

Barry wrote:I understand perfectly.
How well it is made, and how good it looks, doesn't enter into it.

You're still adding a dampener between the plate and the wood and all the prior comments hold. This is strictly a cosmetic addition. Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. It does nothing for sustain improvement nor would it increase "pressure".

Once again, your guitar, your choice what to do with it so just enjoy it.

... please don't imagine that i'm "pee[ing] on [your] leg" when, in fact, you're doing this to yourself. that last post said absolutely nothing about this issue. and what i have said, i've said in a very unassuming way too. move on!

Jeez, some people ...
Three experienced folks here have told you the the same thing now. But you're entitled to your opinion, even though you have stated your expertise was not in guitar building or repair.

Do have a Happy Holiday monkey

Barry wrote:Jeez, some people ...
Three experienced folks here have told you the the same thing now. But you're entitled to your opinion, even though you have stated your expertise was not in guitar building or repair.

Do have a Happy Holiday monkey

... i'm not a musician.  i don't even aspire to be one.  dyspraxia is comorbid with AS.  as such, my ability to actually play a guitar is rather limited.  however, i do enjoy tinkering with them.  that's what i do.  i don't necessarily aim to improve how they play (though i'll be damned if i can tell any difference in this case).  and i was particularly pleased with how that neck plate cushion worked out, whether or not you think it adds anything to the guitar.  you seem to me to be almost obsessed with pouring cold water on this for me.  if you don't like what i do, don't read my posts - simple as that.  but absolutely don't be obnoxious (as you clearly were being when you used the expression that i just commented on), as it isn't welcome.

Not trying to be obnoxious monkey just trying to be realistic. Sorry to have offended you. Carry on.

so, the chrome strap buttons arrived yesterday.  and i almost immediately fitted them.  the first thing that was apparent was that the original screws are 3/4" and the new ones are 1 1/4".  they're also fractionally wider in terms of thread.  not wanting to modify the body in any way, i used the original screws, despite them being black.

the idea, as i've previously mentioned, is to give the body a visually 'cleaner' shape.  and i do think this works.  though, as the following photos attest, it's difficult to capture this photographically ...

monkey wrote:so, the chrome strap buttons arrived yesterday.  and i almost immediately fitted them.  the first thing that was apparent was that the original screws are 3/4" and the new ones are 1 1/4".  they're also fractionally wider in terms of thread.  not wanting to modify the body in any way, i used the original screws, despite them being black.

the idea, as i've previously mentioned, is to give the body a visually 'cleaner' shape.  and i do think this works.  though, as the following photos attest, it's difficult to capture this photographically ...

Far from a cleaner look.
If anything they're more prominent.

As for the knobs did you nick them from an old Amstrad Hi-Fi
Watch out for Lord Sugar, you'll get fired!

Westbone wrote:

monkey wrote:so, the chrome strap buttons arrived yesterday.  and i almost immediately fitted them.  the first thing that was apparent was that the original screws are 3/4" and the new ones are 1 1/4".  they're also fractionally wider in terms of thread.  not wanting to modify the body in any way, i used the original screws, despite them being black.

the idea, as i've previously mentioned, is to give the body a visually 'cleaner' shape.  and i do think this works.  though, as the following photos attest, it's difficult to capture this photographically ...

Far from a cleaner look.
If anything they're more prominent.

As for the knobs did you nick them from an old Amstrad Hi-Fi
Watch out for Lord Sugar, you'll get fired!

... i did say the photos didn't capture the way the strap buttons look in real life. they just don't. chrome can look anything from white to black in a photo.

and, yes, those are indeed amp knobs, as i've also previously said.

Not looking good then....

Westbone wrote:Not looking good then....

... as i said, i wanted to re-build this as original. as that wasn't practical, i decided to make something more novel. it may not be to everyone's taste, however, i actually think it's made this re-build much more interesting. there are aspects that haven't quite worked out as i'd intended. but, even so, overall i'm more than a little pleased with how it's all shaping up.

It's just a dull all black guitar and it still is. 

It needs bling...

Westbone wrote:It's just a dull all black guitar and it still is. 

It needs bling...

... the very thing that i like about this guitar is how understated it is.

Or to put it another way drab.

Westbone wrote:Or to put it another way drab.

... i vaguely recall that william blake said something along the lines of: it is not the light or the dark that matter but rather the contrast between them. in other words, neither exist in isolation but rather in contrast with each other. within this context, shiny can only be shiny if there is something to be shiny in contrast with - something dull!!!

Good old 'Willy' Blake..what a lad...must have been the opium.

Rather use my own words...Drab..in all aspects.

Westbone wrote:Good old 'Willy' Blake..what a lad...must have been the opium.

Rather use my own words...Drab..in all aspects.

... i like william blake. and i don't remember his exact words. and i couldn't find them on google either, though i didn't try very hard.

and it's not all about "bling". form has an aesthetic. sometimes, less is more (though i don't often subscribe to this, as often less is just 'plain old' less).

Don't give a flying fook about Billy Blake.

It still remains a 'dull black guitar' not my taste at all and rather boring old bean... but it's yours so rock on monkey..

Westbone wrote:Don't give a flying fook about Billy Blake.

It still remains a 'dull black guitar' not my taste at all and rather boring old bean... but it's yours so rock on monkey..

... why are you bending over backwards to be so utterly offensive? why? why? why? please stop reading this thread. thank you.

...

i do this for a little bit of escapism. i genuinely thought that it would be nice to be a member of a forum that would share in my 'passion' for guitars. it seems that i was wrong.

It is a forum discussing Westone guitars and it's open for all and sundry to comment on whichever thread they want.

If someone disagrees with you don't start throwing all your toys out of the pram.

Westbone wrote:It is a forum discussing Westone guitars and it's open for all and sundry to comment on whichever thread they want.

If someone disagrees with you don't start throwing all your toys out of the pram.

... what you're doing isn't commenting ... and you know it. so, please don't treat me like an idiot. i've lost count of the number of times that you've told me that my guitar is drab. seriously, get a life.

Monkey, understand that this is a Westone forum and, as such, we endeavour to help people who generally are trying to restore their instruments to OEM, or who are striving to improve what they have. 
What you're doing has very little to do with Westone guitars; only the neck and body are original, yes? Added to that, all of us in here who have followed this thread thus far have rather extensive experience in rebuilding or modifying these instruments and I suspect that we are mystified by your plans, or by the explanations offered for them. 
We don't mean to be offensive, I'm sure, and some are less tactful than others - we are mindful that this is YOUR project and that you can do what you will with it; just remember that whilst you may have been an aerospace engineer with all that that involves, talking down to us like you did with that neckplate cushion, doesn't do your cause any favours!

corsair wrote:Monkey, understand that this is a Westone forum and, as such, we endeavour to help people who generally are trying to restore their instruments to OEM, or who are striving to improve what they have. 
What you're doing has very little to do with Westone guitars; only the neck and body are original, yes? Added to that, all of us in here who have followed this thread thus far have rather extensive experience in rebuilding or modifying these instruments and I suspect that we are mystified by your plans, or by the explanations offered for them. 
We don't mean to be offensive, I'm sure, and some are less tactful than others - we are mindful that this is YOUR project and that you can do what you will with it; just remember that whilst you may have been an aerospace engineer with all that that involves, talking down to us like you did with that neckplate cushion, doesn't do your cause any favours!

... how can you possibly say this?  i couldn't have been any less pretentious.  i never claimed that i was right (or that you or anyone else was wrong).  i merely stated what i thought (and just once, not time and time and time again).  surely i'm allowed to do that (express an opinion)!  and this certainly doesn't excuse the way that i've been baited here.  i naïvely thought that this might be of some interest to other people.  i was wrong about that too.  i even went to some considerable trouble to be able to post photos here, as requested.  but never fear, as i won't be doing any of this again.

Fair enough. I have neither the time nor the energy to argue the toss...

Thread locked.