Westone strat copy from.. where/when? (Just another identifying thread)

[abacabb]

Greetings from Finland. I just purchased a weird Westone stratocaster clone from a finnish auction site (cost as much as 55 euros  ) and I'm wondering if someone would help me identify it's roots. There's no serial number or any other information on the guitar. Just some markings in the neck block. The seller said that it's "at least 20 years old". And judging by the condition (nicely worn etc.) it could be, but is it? And does anyone have a clue about where it has been made in? I got a feeling that the 'no serial number' thing leads us away from Japan & Matsumoku, am I right?  The body is some kind of plywood, so I think this ain't from the top of the price list. But it plays kinda nice and is in perfect working condition (except for one tuning knob).. but a little bit of dirty. 

Photos:
Collage of the whole thing, logo etc.
Front
Body
Back (tremolo system etc.)
Electronics
Gibberish in the neck block
Gibberish on the neck

I think the photos tell all there is to tell about this axe, but ask if you need some more information. Thanks in advance.

[corsair]

There was an oufit in Germany advertising Fender and Gibson knock-offs under the Westone name on ebay a while back and this looks like one of them, however I could be wrong but it is not Japanese, and not Matsumoku... sorry!!

[abacabb]

There was an oufit in Germany advertising Fender and Gibson knock-offs under the Westone name on ebay a while back and this looks like one of them, however I could be wrong but it is not Japanese, and not Matsumoku... sorry!!

Did those have the classic bird logo? Anyway, there was no ebay twenty years ago.. Or my seller has badly lost the track of time  

[abacabb]

Any more ideas?

[Barry]

I think you've already been given the poop by Corsair.
The Westone name was hijacked by some company in Europe, and they're likely making these guitars in China.

The original Japanese Matsumoku Westone never made "Stratocasters", only original designs.
Bottom line: if you like it, play it and enjoy it.

[abacabb]

I think you've already been given the poop by Corsair.
The Westone name was hijacked by some company in Europe, and they're likely making these guitars in China.

The original Japanese Matsumoku Westone never made "Stratocasters", only original designs.
Bottom line: if you like it, play it and enjoy it.

Ok.. But for example: http://www.marktplaats.nl/index.php?url=http%3A//muziek.marktplaats.nl/snaarinstrumenten-gitaren-elektrisch/317031866-westone-stratocaster-matsumoko-100-fender-seventies-kopie.html%3Fxref%3D1
I'm not saying that this plywood thingy of mine is one, but anyway

[Warrn]

If it's a 1980, it is not likely a production Westone. The Westone line was first mass produced in 1981, making a 1980 Westone Strat a prototype or test guitar.

[boutjp97]

I have seen a clone rail bass from Korea that a guy on craigslist was selling last year. He stated that it was a copy either he or a friend (I can't remember) got while stationed in South Korea in the US military in the 80's. Could be one of those if not one of the German "Westones". A clone of a clone?

[Warrn]

A clone rail bass is something I'd like to see.

[Barry]

...A clone of a clone?

...Does not compute...head explosion! head explosion!...must lay down...nap...and Scotch.

[SkinPeeleR]

There are two westone strats for sale in Holland and they are real Matsumoku's

[Barry]

There are two westone strats for sale in Holland and they are real Matsumoku's

We'll need more detail than that I'm afraid: pictures, a link, serial number, something!

All I can do is reiterate that Westone did not productionize "Strats" or "Les Pauls". They made original designs, not clones of american guitars. Some of their models are kind of Strat-like, Spectrum and Concord for example, but definitely not clones. I think it's almost certain to say that anything being sold as a "Strat" under the Westone label is not a Matsumoku made guitar and not Japanese. Period.

Kees, are you following this thread? Anything to add/change?

[Warrn]

I would not rule out the possibility of a pre-production Strat copy.

[boutjp97]

I seem to remember something about the Westone headstock design being the result of a lawsuit from fender. That the original Matsumoku design headstock was exactly like a fender Strat headstock but fender, Gibson and others won a law suit which stated that while the guitar body and pickup configuration could not be proprietary the headstock design and shape with logo could be so Matsumoku and a bunch of other companies had to alter their pre cut fender Strat style headstock to save the inventory and that is why Matsumoku headstocks are shaped as they are. I don't know if any of this is true but you can definitely see from the Matsumoku headstock design that it is at least feasible. Like I said I didn't do any research on this, just something I picked up over the years from who knows where.

[Barry]

I seem to remember something about the Westone headstock design being the result of a lawsuit from fender...

Now, that's a new one on me! I understood "lawsuit" pertained to Norlin (Gibson) versus Hoshino (Ibanez, et al).

[Guest]

It's completely untrue - very full details of the lawsuit are available here
Fender were never involved, neither were Matsumoku.

It's also untrue to say that Matsumoku didn't do copies of Strats or Les Pauls. Matsumoku got the rights to the Westone name in 1975, they produced mostly acoustic guitars with some electric copies until introducing their own designs in 1980/81.

If you follow the link to the one on marktplaats.nl there are quite a few pictures, including one of the neck plate which shows it's a 1980 Matsumoku. The same guitar is also listed on this page at www.westone.info

Abacabb - your guitar is not a Matsumoku, it's one of the many copies of strats/Teles/Les Pauls etc available from www.westone-guitars.com . Do a search for Westone on www.ebay.de and you'll see lots of them. They are using a different logo now, but a year or two ago they did use the old Matsumoku eagle logo. (A clear sign that its NOT a Mat, as they didn't use that logo until 1984 by which time they'd stopped making copies)

[abacabb]

Abacabb - your guitar is not a Matsumoku, it's one of the many copies of strats/Teles/Les Pauls etc available from www.westone-guitars.com . Do a search for Westone on www.ebay.de and you'll see lots of them. They are using a different logo now, but a year or two ago they did use the old Matsumoku eagle logo. (A clear sign that its NOT a Mat, as they didn't use that logo until 1984 by which time they'd stopped making copies)

Yea, I know it's not a Matsumoku.. But I'm also quite sure that this guitar was not made "a year or two ago". Westone-guitars.com says "In 2003 the brand WESTONE was brought back to life again in Germany". So, my question is, was there this kind of clone guitars made in some point between the SLM era and these new german ones?

[boutjp97]

There are several inaccuracies in my previous post. So the lawsuit was Gibson vs. Ibanez and the lawsuit wasn’t won but settled by Ibanez out of court. What I was alluding to was that the headstock design was altered after this period because of the lawsuit. Again, I do not know if it is true but on the Matsumoku.org site this is listed…



“In 1975 Arai launched the Aria Pro II line, produced by Matsumoku which included set neck copies of the LP Custom, LP Standard, and by 1975 included copies of the SG, S*****caster, T***caster, P-Bass, J-Bass, a Ricky Bass, ES175 style jazz boxes, ES335 style jazz boxes, and a copy of the Ripper Bass. Direct copies began to wane towards the end of 1977 primarily due to the lawsuit threat by Norlin against Elger/Hoshino.”


“The lawsuit was not "won" by Norlin, but settled out of court. Most of the Japanese companies, as a precautionary move, turned away from close copies but many still offered their "version" of the classic American designs with at least minor departures in design and appearance.”

And as Thorn provided a link to a Fender knock off with the Westone logo they apparently did make a Fender type headstock at least for that model and that maybe they were one of the Japanese companies that “turned away from close copies” by altering the headstock design. Again, sorry about the inaccuracies but I was trying to suggest that it is possible that Matsumoku made a Fender Strat type guitar and that the headstock design may be a result of the law suit era. Thanks for finding that link, pretty savvy tracking down that model Thorn.

[Guest]

was there this kind of clone guitars made in some point between the SLM era and these new german ones?

Not that I'm aware of (And I probably would be aware of it if they existed) - after production stopped in 1991 (As far as I know) there were no Westone guitars until 1997 when FCN (The original UK distributors) introduced some original electric models , they switched to producing acoustic and electro acoustic models a couple of years later. They are still making the electro acoustics, the only other 'westone' guitars that I know of since then are the strat/les paul/tele copies from www.westone-guitars.com

What makes you think your guitar isn't just a few years old?

[abacabb]

What makes you think your guitar isn't just a few years old?

As I said before, the seller told me that the guitar is about 20 years old. The painting of the guitar is in quite bad shape and the plastics have turned to yellow. It is also missing lots of screws etc. The frets are worn.  Looks pretty natural, not a DIY-relic.. 

[SkinPeeleR]

took some time to react but on the westone.info site there is under the unknown models list a stratocaster made by westone. http://www.westone.info/uk11.html

Exactly 2 of these were for sale in the Netherlands for around €275 - €300,-
I have thought of it to buy one but my girl would screw my nuts of if idd buy another westone.

[anaerobe]

My 0.02 - agree with Warrn, this thing looks... different and definitely old.

Ian

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