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1981 Paduak 1 bridge saddle – Can you help?

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Post by psafloyd Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:36 am

I'm looking for a bridge saddle for a 1981 Paduak 1. It was only fitted to this model in this year and appears to be like six in line Telecaster style (see image below). 

I can get an aftermarket Tele bridge with saddles but I am not sure the brass will be the same – at least colour match – so I thought I'd try here first in case anyone has one floating around. 

All help gratefully received.

bridge - 1981 Paduak 1 bridge saddle – Can you help? Paduak-ver1-bridge-string-slots
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Post by Barry Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:39 pm

Ah yes, the barrel saddle bridge. For the most part a colossal design error by Uncle Mats (confirmed by Tom Presley).

This approach worked well on a 4 string bass but was pretty much a disaster when ported to a 6 string guitar. It was used on early Westone Thunders and Vantage Avengers and quickly dropped.

The design forces the strings through a tortured path around the intonation screws and over the barrels, often sitting on the height adjustment set screws instead of the brass!

And because the barrels need to be wider than a standard saddle in order to accommodate the screws the strings are pushed wider and the E strings do not sit over the pickup poles. I can see evidence of that in your picture

This also causes them to track too close to the fret board edge.
In the case of one of my guitars the treble E would fall off the board completely.

Finally, the length of the intonation screws makes the assembly a bit unstable, not at all what you want in a bridge.

I understand the urge to maintain originality but honestly, I would take this opportunity to replace the saddles or even the entire bridge with something more accurate.

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Post by Westbone Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:46 am

That photo is one of mine.

That particular style bridge works fine. Plenty of down force from where the strings hook up.

It's 'F' spaced it's the pickup that isn't.

The similar bridge that hooks the strings in the upright bit at the back is junk.

What happened to your original saddle??
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Post by Westbone Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:52 am

Your right Barry the D string is out of the slot.

Probably because I'd just restrung it but in practice it is absolutely fine.
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Post by psafloyd Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:38 pm

Westbone wrote:That photo is one of mine.

That particular style bridge works fine. Plenty of down force from where the strings hook up.

It's 'F' spaced it's the pickup that isn't.

The similar bridge that hooks the strings in the upright bit at the back is junk.

What happened to your original saddle??
I acquired the Paduak for not very much money a couple of years back and it was missing the saddle, then. 

Other distractions have occupied the interim, but this one is in quite nice nick – better than my other one without any fingerboard wear – and I'd like to get it dusted off and complete.

Any ideas about an original replacement, or will a new set do, do you think?
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Post by Barry Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:39 pm

Ha! I didn't notice it was your pic Damian! Razz

Yeah the string thru version is likely more stable but I still don't like the awkward way the string has to bend around the screws. It is just an unnecessarily clumsy design IMHO.

Yup, the top loader version is total rubbish! Got rid of 3 of 'em for the reasons mentioned above.

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Post by Westbone Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:57 pm

Barry wrote:
Yeah the string thru version is likely more stable but I still don't like the awkward way the  string has to bend around the screws. It is just an unnecessarily clumsy design IMHO.

Yup, the top loader version is total rubbish! Got rid of 3 of 'em for the reasons mentioned above.
That version is not a string through. Just hooks up in the bridge plate.

Does go around the springs a little bit but not a problem. Seriously!.... Smile Cool
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Post by Barry Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:07 pm

Westbone wrote:That version is not a string through. Just hooks up in the bridge plate.

Does go around the springs a little bit but not a problem. Seriously!.... Smile Cool
Ah right. Still, it's a much more solid connection eh?

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Post by Westbone Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:39 pm

Solid, yes... Very Happy

The hook up in the rear upright is junk.... Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Barry Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:38 pm

Hey, sorry psafloyd, we got off on a side chat there. tongue

Can you offer any advice to our poster's question about saddle replacement Damian?

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Post by psafloyd Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:14 am

Barry wrote:Hey, sorry psafloyd, we got off on a side chat there. tongue

Can you offer any advice to our poster's question about saddle replacement Damian?

No problem. All interesting stuff.
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Post by Westbone Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:19 am

I don't have any spares for those bridges.

Wouldn't be hard to make one though.

Didn't you take your bridge off due to those saddles Barry??
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Post by psafloyd Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:30 pm

Westbone wrote:I don't have any spares for those bridges.

Wouldn't be hard to make one though.

Didn't you take your bridge off due to those saddles Barry??

Are they a different size from the Tele style ones? I think I may end up trying one.
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Post by Westbone Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:48 pm

No idea off hand.

Have a measure up.
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Post by Barry Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:03 pm

Westbone wrote:...
Didn't you take your bridge off due to those saddles Barry??
I did, and sent one assembly to a member looking to restore something to original, despite my caution that it would likely end in tears.
It did!
He ended up not using it.

I have the other 2(?) around somewhere. I know I didn't dump them in case the next owner wanted the original part if/when I sell.
But bugger it, I'm guessing yes, but do you know if the saddles are identical?

I should pack up all the saddles and send them to you Damian and perhaps you can help out our friend here?

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Post by Westbone Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:57 am

Barry wrote:
I should pack up all the saddles and send them to you Damian and perhaps you can help out our friend here?

Why not have a measure up with psafloyd and take it from there?
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Post by psafloyd Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:54 am

Westbone wrote:
Barry wrote:
I should pack up all the saddles and send them to you Damian and perhaps you can help out our friend here?

Why not have a measure up with psafloyd and take it from there?

I'll get the calipers out and give it a measure later today. 

Thanks for the help, gents.
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Post by Barry Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:39 am

Westbone wrote:
Barry wrote:
I should pack up all the saddles and send them to you Damian and perhaps you can help out our friend here?

Why not have a measure up with psafloyd and take it from there?
I just thought you'd like them for your 'magic box'. But if not I'll look after it.

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"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
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Post by Barry Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:23 pm

Some dimensions for ya, taken from a Thunder I-A bridge.
These are average (nominal) dimensions, the actual ones varied a few hundredths of a mm owing I guess to oxidation, dirt etc.

bridge - 1981 Paduak 1 bridge saddle – Can you help? Barrel11

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The Tele saddle would be too wide.

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Post by Westbone Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:21 pm

10.5  'F' spaced
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Post by Barry Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Face Palm  I was thinking of a compensated Wilkinson style saddle (2 strings per)

Some days it don't pay to get outa bed, ya know? tongue

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"A little song. A little dance. A little seltzer down your pants." -Chuckles the Clown
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Post by Westbone Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:59 am

Barry wrote:I just thought you'd like them for your 'magic box'. But if not I'll look after it.
Thank you Barry but I'm retiring from guitars slowly but surely..... Cool Have other things that need doing. Like the house as we intend to move asap. Must get out of London!
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Post by psafloyd Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:25 am

Westbone wrote:
Barry wrote:I just thought you'd like them for your 'magic box'. But if not I'll look after it.
Thank you Barry but I'm retiring from guitars slowly but surely..... Cool Have other things that need doing. Like the house as we intend to move asap. Must get out of London!
I'd like to get out of London and head east.
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Post by psafloyd Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:30 am

psafloyd wrote:
Westbone wrote:

Why not have a measure up with psafloyd and take it from there?

I'll get the calipers out and give it a measure later today. 

Thanks for the help, gents.

Saddles are much as you have kindly shared below, Barry. My measurements came out at 11mm wide by 8mm deep on a 41mm screw. 

They do seem to be very similar to a Tele style bridge I have seen on Amazon (see last pic).
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Post by Barry Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:32 pm

Westbone wrote:Thank you Barry but I'm retiring from guitars slowly but surely..... Cool
Sorry to hear that Damian. I hope it's not a forced decision.

Your expertise will be a loss to the guitar world and Westone players in particular.
But I do hope you'll still hang around here to keep us on the straight and narrow.

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Post by Barry Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:46 pm

psafloyd wrote:
Saddles are much as you have kindly shared below, Barry. My measurements came out at 11mm wide by 8mm deep on a 41mm screw. 

They do seem to be very similar to a Tele style bridge I have seen on Amazon (see last pic).

I didn't measure my screw dia but the length is just over 36mm.
Your 11mm seems awfully wide though, the Tele saddle you linked to is 10.8mm

Depending on how picky you are, you could probably use the Tele saddle regardless. You might want to shuffle its position in order to minimize any pole alignment issues especially over the treble E string.

Send me a PM if you're interested in my saddle.

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Post by psafloyd Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:54 pm

Barry wrote:
psafloyd wrote:
Saddles are much as you have kindly shared below, Barry. My measurements came out at 11mm wide by 8mm deep on a 41mm screw. 

They do seem to be very similar to a Tele style bridge I have seen on Amazon (see last pic).

I didn't measure my screw dia but the length is just over 36mm.
Your 11mm seems awfully wide though, the Tele saddle you linked to is 10.8mm

Depending on how picky you are, you could probably use the Tele saddle regardless. You might want to shuffle its position in order to minimize any pole alignment issues especially over the treble E string.

Send me a PM if you're interested in my saddle.

0.2mm on a set of cheap calipers is nothing. But it could be they are wider. 

I'd be interested in your saddle for the sake of originality, so thanks, I'll PM you.
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Post by Barry Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:43 pm

0.2mm on a set of cheap calipers is nothing.
Yup. Like the lady said, "Size isn't everything" Rolling Eyes

Got your message. Will mail it when I get your address.

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Post by Barry Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:25 pm

One of Uncle Mats' famous barrel saddles is on its way as of today Pádraig.

Fingers crossed it makes it. Small envelope. Padded. No customs declaration

Maybe it'll sneak by as a birthday card. tongue

_________________
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