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Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top?

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Post by Pelle64 Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Hi everyone,

I've just cleaned my whole Westone spectrum DX. What means i took of all parts and made them pretty again.
The problem is when putting my Bendmaster bridge together I have no idea what the little wheels on top of it are used for.
I know where they should be and they fit perfectly but what is the benefit of it. Where are they used for.

By the way, i'm rather new to this forum and a guitar rookie. So if anything is not clear just tell me.

cheers.
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Post by Westbone Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:49 pm

How many 'little wheels' are there, 6?
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Post by corsair Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:18 pm

They'd be either the saddles which the strings pass over on their way to the headstock, or the fine tuners which sit atop the whale tail.If they are the saddles - which sit in a complex casting - be aware that they are radiused to the neck; i.e. they are at different heights according to the string that passes over the top of it. The strings will come up through the sustain block, which you will access via the plastic plate on the back of the guitar, under the little metal tag which sits behind the saddle, across the saddle and off to the neck where they cross the nut, and go through the stringlock to the machine heads.

The fine tuners are there to allow a certain amount of tuning function when the strings are locked up behind the nut; obviously you cannot use the machine heads when the strings are bolted down so the manufacturers of floating trems put these fine tuners on.

Does your DX have the stringlocks? If so, be a little circumspect when tightening them up as the E/A bolt only has about 2 or 3 threads engaging and is consequently prone to stripping out, given that the bolt is steel and the stringlock base is sh*t metal. If you don't have the stringlocks, then I strongly suggest some lubricant on all of the string contact points - saddles and nut; in fact I use Nutsauce on all my guitars, trem equipped or not!!

If you've taken the guitar to bits as you state, then you're in for a world of hurt when you come to set the action and intonate the thing; it is a pain in the arse!! I mean, it's quite easy to do, but is very time consuming and fiddly!

Right... that's all you're gonna get for free; now you need to show us the guitar in question!! Laughing
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Post by Barry Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:42 pm

Yeah! Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? Wewantpix

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Post by Pelle64 Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:27 pm

Thanks for the quick responds!
Well, i've googled my bendmaster bridge and i found out that there's an deluxe version. I think that one has got stringlocks on the bridge.
I haven't but i've got stringlocks on the ''head'' of the guitar. Sorry for my mashed up english, i'll have to learn guitar part names...
About intonating ^^ I have my chrismas break now so loads of time.

I will try to upload pictures tomorrow, i can make clear witch part of the bridge i mean and show off with my lovely Spectrum DX ^^

cheers.
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Post by corsair Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:25 am

Ahhhh; your guitar has the FT bridge so you can disregard the part of my post which deals with the saddles; I think you're talking about the fine tuners!!

(That'll teach me to spout off without checking some facts!!) Does your bridge look like this....

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? DSC_0002-2
Bendmaster FT

...or this...

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? DSC_0024
Bendmaster Deluxe?

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Post by Pelle64 Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:46 am

The first one's almost identical to mine. Almost, mine is more shiny Wink.

Well, I guess you understand what I mean with the little wheels. I've googled fine tuners and that is what I mean indeed.
Yesterday I tried to post a picture of a bridge with the part I meant marked in paint but I've some problems uploading pictures.
When I click the host an image button, which is the one I should be using I guess. I can choose for an URL or upload an image.
When I click browse to locate the file I want to upload and select it and press upload. I get another window giving me 3 URLS with a copy button next to it.
It shouldn't be hard to do but I wasn't able to figure it out yet. If you could help me, i'll upload pictures of my guitar as well.

In an earlier post you mentioned string locks. Well on the 2th picture you uploaded, you can see a string lock next to the bridge. I've got those but since you've just read i haven't got an deluxe version i don't have string locks on my bridge.


Cheers.
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Post by corsair Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:29 am

You do, you know, and they'll look like this....

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? DSC_0004

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? DSC_0007-1

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? DSC_0008-1

.. or at least they should!!

OK, hosting of pix is a bit of an issue so what most of us do is upload whatever pix we want to show into a dedicated photo server like Photobucket or Imageshack, and then c+p the .img link that you are given into our posts here. It's easy as; even I can do it!

Once you're all set with the terms and stuff, we'll walk you through setting the beast up!
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Post by Pelle64 Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:33 am

Altough you already know what i mean, I'll try to upload the picture anyway to see or the imageuploading works.

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? WestoneSpectrumDX-bridgeBefore3
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Post by corsair Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:54 pm

There you go; easy, eh!!

Yep... them's the fine tuners. The FT bridge is the subject of much heartache due to the wee stringclaws which, if you get the string ball in the wrong place when re-stringing, will snap one of the claws off and leave you having to jam up the string ball the best way you can; not ideal as the OEM claws are as rare as rockinghorse poo! However, there is a ray of light on the horizon; another of the new guys in here has found stringclaws that may just be the answer to a maidens prayer....
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Post by Pelle64 Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:34 pm

Here are some images of my Westone Spectrum DX.
If you want anymore just tell me what you would like to see and I'll shoot some more right away.

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC242851

As you can see, there are some cuts in the painting, they are all over the place. It was already like that when I bought it. I'd consider to repaint it. But apart from my classical guitar this is the only guitar I've got. So I don't want to mess anything up. Apart from that I haven't got much experience in such thing. I am rather precise and patient but not skilled. So whats your advise? should I try re-painting it? is it really necessary anyway?

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC242853

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC242854

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC242855

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC242856
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Post by Guest Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:04 pm

Don't start to sand it down unless you are sure you want to paint it. I'm in the middle of refinishing one of mine and it is a lot more work than I anticipated, but is worth it to me in the long run.

The frets look pretty worn on your guitar, I think it may need to be refretted to avoid buzzing. I believe there are a few members here who have done a fret job that may have some advice on that topic.
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Post by Warrn Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:41 pm

Don't repaint it! A few scratches mean absolutely nothing and that guitar is gorgeous as is. Leave the battle scars visible. Smile
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Post by nasticanasta Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:16 pm

sarcaster wrote:Don't start to sand it down unless you are sure you want to paint it. I'm in the middle of refinishing one of mine and it is a lot more work than I anticipated, but is worth it to me in the long run.

The frets look pretty worn on your guitar, I think it may need to be refretted to avoid buzzing. I believe there are a few members here who have done a fret job that may have some advice on that topic.
surely you mean dressed...those frets do not need replacing. But they sure are hit...not to the extent they need replacing, but hit. PersonallyI don't understand how anyone could let frets get that bad.
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Post by Pelle64 Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:27 pm

Well, thats a relief. After reading this posts its clear. I won't repaint my guitar.
About the frets, I hope you understand that I own this guitar for maybe 2 years. Since i'm rather careful with my guitars this problem is not caused by me, just wanted to make sure you know Wink.

So could someone please tell me what's meant with ''hit''. And should I replace frets?
If yes, how much does it cost. Will it be really hard to do for me, a rookie as I am?
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Post by corsair Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Nasti means that someone played the guitar hard, probably with heavy strings, and made flat spots on the frets, which as he says, only need a good dressing to make right again! Any half-way decent luthier will do the job if you don't fancy it yourself; it's not a particularly hard job but you do need the exact right tools for the job and a whole heap of patience!! Fretboard could do with a jolly good scrub with a toothbrush - I use my wifes! - and some soapy water, with a few coats of fretboard oil afterwards!!

You are missing the string lock entirely - you can see the screw holes where it used to be - so an aftermarket Kahler "behind the nut" strimglock will be in order if you want to use the trem in anything other than gentle wobbles, as it will go out of tune without the locks under anything more extreme.

You only have 2 springs in the trem cavity; I personally use 4, plus, these days a trem setter, to help tuning stability on the floating bridge. I think everyone else in here uses 3, but then I use heavier strings than most!!

The paintwork is in good nick, really; certainly not repaint material by any means; one of the lads in here - Barry?? - used a car cutting and polishing compound to get the finish back on one of his, and our resident Swede - Racing - has restored many of his guitars to a mirror finish; check out his posts!! The paint finish on these white guitars - I have a white Spectrum ST - is as hard as nails and takes a power of shifting so unless it was really ugly, I'd leave well alone!! Besides, a few nicks and dings add a little mojo, eh!!

OK.. it's Xmas eve and my kids are all asleep in bed; time to play Santa...
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Post by nasticanasta Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:35 pm

Pelle64 wrote:Well, thats a relief. After reading this posts its clear. I won't repaint my guitar.
About the frets, I hope you understand that I own this guitar for maybe 2 years. Since i'm rather careful with my guitars this problem is not caused by me, just wanted to make sure you know Wink.

So could someone please tell me what's meant with ''hit''. And should I replace frets?
If yes, how much does it cost. Will it be really hard to do for me, a rookie as I am?
oops..ya "hit" as in really worn bad, sorry! Also I wasn't suggesting you did this to the frets..but someone did..and that's where I directed that comment of who someone could it it get that way...they must have been in "buzz" city. I use 9's I switched from GHS (which I've used all my life) to Ernie Balls, they seem to take a beating and still have that bright sound I require. As for frets and wear, the heavier the string the bigger the divots as corsair mentioned, I find I get flat tops on my frets as opposed to divots, this is realy true of my Trevor Rabin SS, always flattened crowns that are very wide thus never any divots. I use the 3 spring setup, I find it to have the perfect tension for my playing style...I'd like to mention that The neck on my Trevor Rabin is like no other neck I have felt on any westone guitar before....it's very thin and wide, wide like a BC Rich. I don't have real big hands like Steve Vai..but even my hands look like Hendrix's Smile. It still ranks as one of my top guitars for fast necks, it's effortless. I got an original USA made BC Rich Stealth which is the same as my TRS, and just purchased a neck thru ESP that has a neck like it too. Anyways just wondered why no other westone felt like my TRS, even my Pantera isn't as fast.


Last edited by nasticanasta on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Pelle64 Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:51 am

corsair wrote:

You are missing the string lock entirely - you can see the screw holes where it used to be - so an aftermarket Kahler "behind the nut" strimglock will be in order if you want to use the trem in anything other than gentle wobbles, as it will go out of tune without the locks under anything more extreme.

No I don't, I've took them off to see clean it and see or it was in good condition. It was, but i didn't put it back on yet.
So that's not a problem. How much will it cost to let someone else do my frets you think? As a 15 years old I cant afford to spend loads of money Wink

By the way, if I ask something twice or something it's probably because I didn't understand what's said in the reply.
I can understand almost everything said, but some rather essential words, I don't. Google translate isn't really working because it translates everything wrong.

Anyway could some one please tell me what's meant with dressing?

cheers.
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Post by corsair Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:45 am

Ahhh; that's good because they're hard to come by second-hand!!

Dressing the frets is to take a special file to the frets and smooth them out and make them playable again.

Have a read here...

http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5006&p=29008&hilit=frets#p29008
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Post by nasticanasta Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:12 am

corsair wrote:Ahhh; that's good because they're hard to come by second-hand!!

Dressing the frets is to take a special file to the frets and smooth them out and make them playable again.

Have a read here...

http://www.matsumoku.org/ggboard/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5006&p=29008&hilit=frets#p29008
Intonation and sound are so important to me, I will fix anything on a guitar, from finishes to electronics, I've always done all my trem setups and I am confidant there is no trem I can't set up or fix, but when it comes to dressing frets...I leave that to my guitar "tech" , when he does them they are like mirrors when I get 'em back. $60 for a full dressing and intonation, can't beat that. Merry Christmas people.
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Post by corsair Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:18 pm

nasticanasta wrote:, but when it comes to dressing frets...I leave that to my guitar "tech" , when he does them they are like mirrors when I get 'em back. $60 for a full dressing and intonation, can't beat that. Merry Christmas people.

Amen, brother!! Very Happy
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Post by Pelle64 Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:21 pm

Well, thanks for all information so far.
What i've done so far:

-Cleaned the bridge.
-Cleaned the neck (soap water and toothbrush)
-Used steel wool to get all old oil and dirt of.
-Cleaned the neck again (soap and water)
-Put 2 layers of oil on it.

So what I want to do is:
-bring some more oil on.
-Go to see the local guitar tech. ( you guys say my frets need to be dressed)
*-re-string.
*-get the bridge floating,
*-Intonate.

The *ones are the parts where I might need help.
I don't know or the guitar needs to be re-stringed diffirent when you want to have a floating bridge.
I've never set my bridge floating and i would appreciate some help with it.

I can't do this all before Monday because of Christmas all shops are closed.

If someone thinks I forget something, just tell me. I would love to have more work on my guitar, it starts to get addicting Wink

cheers.
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Post by nasticanasta Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:26 pm

Pelle64 wrote:Well, thanks for all information so far.
What i've done so far:

-Cleaned the bridge.
-Cleaned the neck (soap water and toothbrush)
-Used steel wool to get all old oil and dirt of.
-Cleaned the neck again (soap and water)
-Put 2 layers of oil on it.

So what I want to do is:
-bring some more oil on.
-Go to see the local guitar tech. ( you guys say my frets need to be dressed)
*-re-string.
*-get the bridge floating,
*-Intonate.

The *ones are the parts where I might need help.
I don't know or the guitar needs to be re-stringed diffirent when you want to have a floating bridge.
I've never set my bridge floating and i would appreciate some help with it.

I can't do this all before Monday because of Christmas all shops are closed.

If someone thinks I forget something, just tell me. I would love to have more work on my guitar, it starts to get addicting Wink

cheers.
A good tech will do all that for you, since your frets will be lower he will or should include in a dressing the intonation and new strings should be included in a dressing, if your trem is close to where you want it an adjustment won't cost you, but if he is setting up that floating trem for the first time, i'd say $30 bucks extra is standard. You said you were 15, or 17 I can't recall so I know $$ can be tight, but every guitar I buy goes straight to my tech for a good looking over, I've been lucky the last 2 times I bought a guitar they were already set, another reason to love ESP they are dressed and intonation is set at the factory!
I must say that I am relieved to find a teen now a days playing a real guitar and not guitar hero... lol I'm no slouch on guitar, or on vid games...but I'll be damned if I can play that guitar hero game....I keep wanting to fret strings lol
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Post by Warrn Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Actually you can do that now on Rock Band nasti, they made a Squier guitar that works with the game and a mode where you have to play the song as the original artist intended! Very Happy I'm not very good at it, haha. I mostly stick to singing or drumming when I play that.
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Post by Pelle64 Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:35 am

Well, I guess that I will let the dressing do by a tech. Not even because I can't afford it, but I would like to set the floating bridge and intonation my self, or at least try to.
I think setting my guitar up is really fun and it might feel even better to play it when I've done it myself.
Maybe I've overestimated how much work it is and how much time it will cost but if it doesn't work out i want i can always return to the tech can I?
I think it's worth a try but i guess i need to wait until the frets are dressed right?

Sometimes I do play guitar hero actually, but usually only with friends, its rather fun but i don't think it has anything to do with music. Its just like any other video game.

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Post by corsair Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:39 am

Yep; absolutely have a go at setting it up yourself - it's not rocket science - it's a matter of taking it slowly and perhaps understanding WHY you're doing what you're doing. Let us know when you have the guitar back from the fret job and we'll walk you through the set-up, but bear in mind that if you don't tell him not to, the luthier will probably do this as part of the fret job, as Nasti said.

I don't do video games. At all.
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Post by Pelle64 Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:48 am

Ok good that you said so because it would be a pity if I got my guitar back suspecting the frets to be dressed and everything was set already.
I can't bring my guitar away now because all shops are closed (Because of Christmas). I'll see or I can bring it away tomorrow.

No i guess thats is a difference between a 15 year old and a 51 year old.
My father is around your age and he doesn't play video games either.

cheers.
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Post by Racing Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:14 am

Couple of heads ups.

First of all,where you at Pelle?
If any of the more knowledgable members are close by i mean...

Second.
As i look at that trem on the other page,is that for your guitar?
I mean,is it YOUR tremolo?

See...trems have fulcrum points. Where the two "knifes"/cutouts rest vs the anchor bolts and in turn is held in place by string balance vs spring counterload.
Those knifes needs to be reasonably sharp and smooth at the same time-and what´s more carry minute amounts of lubricant.

The contact points get worn over time and as this happens the trem will have a harder and harder time to return to "zero" and as such at that point needs to be dressed.
In short,worn knifes may very well cost you ability to stay in pitch.

If you´ve taken the trem bridge off of the guitar, wear at these points will be quite evident to the naked eye.
What you want is a rather pointy fulcrum surface of the trem plate and the anchor bolts should have a very clear "V" form to corespond.
Normaly it will be the plate that is more worn than the bolts.
All is not lost tho and one can redress the plate with simple needle files and very fine grit emery.Likewise for the bolts.
Put very very minute amounts of white grease to the contact points as you bolt the whole thing back up.

Tidbit of info on what at least I found a good mod.;
I turned some knurled locknuts out of aerospace aluminium for the anchor bolts on occasion on my lathe.
As the anchor bolts have a winding,that simply brings freeplay-which we need for height adjustment asf.
However,as that is set we want the bolts to be set rigid...and that´s where these little knurled nuts come in.
Simply tighten them against the guitar body and done deal.
Yep.
Surely make for a more stable trem setup
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Post by Pelle64 Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:17 pm

Well, I live in the Netherlands. ( That's a small country near Germany for those who don't know)
I have less hope there's any of you living here to.

The trem on the other page isn't mine.
Here's a picture of my trem. It was hard to make a close up photo because of my camera.
Since it's my mothers camera i'll ask her for help to make a good picture when needed.

Any way here it is:

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC272872

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? PC272869
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Post by Westbone Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:46 pm

When you do string up make sure the ball end of the string sits perfectly in the 'claws', not cocked to one side as this tends to put more force on one side of the claw, causing it to snap.
Just string it up first and see how it plays. Dont worry about the top string clamp,(neck end) just have go, see how it plays.
There's plenty of instruction on the web, youtube, ect.
Good Luck. Then take to a tec.
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Post by Pelle64 Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:17 pm

Thanks for the advice! Well, I've done it before so the re-stringing shouldn't be a problem.
Before i'll do that I will upload a photo of my fretboard. I took it to the music store today and the guy told me I used the wrong oil.
He gave me Lem oil. so I sanded all old oil off and putted the new one on.
I actually don't want to let a tech do my bridge set up because i find it fun to do it myself.
If it doesn't work out i want i can always take it back to a tech right?

cheers.
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Post by Pelle64 Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:04 pm

before I take my guitar to the tech, who should be present Monday, i would like to know or my bridge fulcrum points are ok.
I've made some pictures and posted them a few days ago, i don't know or they are closed up enough to give a proper advice. ( if it isn't please let me know)

Happy new year all!
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Post by corsair Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:39 pm

Pelle64 wrote:I've made some pictures and posted them a few days ago,

Whereabouts?? You mean the ones of the bridge just above? We can't tell from those whether the knife edges are good or bad; you'd need to use the macro setting - normally indicated with a flower icon - on your camera and take some close ups of the actual pivot points.

The tech will be able to tell you that if he's any good; the bridge looks quite tidy so I'm picking - from here in the Channel Islands, mind you!! - that the fulcrum points will be OK.....

Happy new year all!

... and to you, as well!!
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Post by Pelle64 Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:19 pm

here's another more closed up picture of my bridge. I hope it's good enough to see the fulcrum points.

Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? P1022947

Here's a picture of my fretboard. I've cleaned it, sanded the wrong oil of and put lem-oil on it.
Please let me know what you think.

this is the upper fret board.
Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? P1022952

This is the lower fretboard.
Bendmaster bridge, Wheels on top? P1022953

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Post by Racing Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:48 pm

That bridge looks to work as is. If you want to be anal about it just dress it lightly with a needle file dressed with 800 emery or similar.

The fretboard,got a word of advice there...
Worn fretboards are quite common on old guitars. Get a pack of razorblades. The old fashioned style you can buy in hardware stores for general purposes these days.
Put a SHARP razorblade at a 90deg angle to the fretboard and scrape back n forth. This will both level and cut the absolute minimum off-that quite often is dead anyways-leaving you with a fretboard that both looks and feels like a million bux in comparsion.
Don´t use pressure,just scrape back n forth at a half rapid rate......trust me...
This is a little trick luthiers have used for ages and that works downright WONDERS.

Now...you pull that stunt twice actualy.

You need to have those frets leveled and recrowned. You can either opt to do this yourself,it is NOT the end of the world and i´ve written how-to´s on the subject before,just look them up,or you can have your local tech do it.
Point still is that that massive a level job needed will most likely burr and scar the fretboard ever so slightly,so as the fretjob is done in all its glory bring out the trusted razorblade and repeat.
Yes...you DO cut an extremely small amount of the fretboard out,but it won´t amount to squat from a performance POW.
More to the contrary really as the practical benefits of having a smoother and cleaner board will pay off manyfold in the long run.

It is to the point where it could be considered good practice to scrape a board every now and then when changing strings aso.

For the trem.
Polish the knifes. Check freeplay of the anchor bolts in the bungs into the body as you put them in there SANS the trem.
If they wiggle much back n forth it MIGHT be a good idea to try installing a pair of cut down M6 nuts to tighten the whole thing up.
If that turns out to pay dividents you might consider asking a local machine shop to make a pair from aluminium that are knurled or similar for looks.
Put the whole thing back together,and don´t forget to use precious small amounts of "white grease"(lithium based) for the contact points of the trem.

Work it up by tuning the guitar to pitch. Alter spring counterforce at the spring claw at the back to balance the trem to be almost level with the body while at the same time balancing stringpack height vs the fretboard.

First thing´s first though,and that entails taking care of fret wear without a doubt


Last edited by Racing on Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by corsair Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:05 am

Yep; knife edges look OK, really but as Jesper said, if you feel like giving the guitar the best you can, then a light dressing wouldn't hurt if you're that way inclined!

Fret board and frets need attention, so you can follow Jespers' walk-through on how do do it yourself, or get it done by a pro. I'll be honest; I'll do everything and anything else to a guitar, .... but dressing and leveling the frets scares the crap out of me so I spend a little cash and get it done professionally! However, I have a beater here that I'm gonna have a crack at, following the instructions to the letter, and reading a book or two on the subject... Smile
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Post by Westbone Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:33 am

Just string it up, see how it plays. Frets like that are usually progressive wear and don't always buzz.
Can always dress the frets later. Do the electrics work?
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Post by Pelle64 Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:27 am

Ok thanks for all this information so far.
I think i will do as Jesper said and get some razor blades first.
Then take it to the tech who will hopefully level and dress my frets. Then i will use the razorblades again.
When that part's done I will string it up and see or it was worth all the time spend in it.

Do the electrics work?

Yes the eletrics work fine.

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