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Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC

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Post by anaerobe Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:18 am

Gear acquisition is stirring my soul again..and I found an interesting one.

Guitar: late 60's or so "Raven" bass. Plain Jane copy of Fender's Jazz bass. Single pup. Nice one-piece maple neck, rosewood fretboard. Sunburst tobacco finish on one-piece mahogany body. Bolt on neck. Back plate reads "Made in Japan" ... very similar to the MIJ inscription on the plate bolted to my 1982 Westone x70. To me, it looks like an early example of a Japanese stuff that flooded the market in the late 60's. Dirty and missing a few bits, but essentially undamaged. Remarkable condition actually. The build quality fit and finish is good. The hardware is definitely not high end.

Its a massive instrument. As in heavy - far heavier than my BC Rich.

History: Current owner has essentially stored it for 11 years. The first owner - since '69 or '70.

Markings: Other than MIJ on the neck plate, the word "Raven" appears on the headstock.

+++++++++++++++

There are 'net rumours that claim lineage ties to either factory for MIJ "Raven" brand guitars (not to be confused with the Washburn Raven) and basses sold in Canada. Its f/s in the local buy and sell (Kijiji Winnipeg) for $150. The owner claims its late 60's, early 70's model. No serial number. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Kopfschuettel
++++++++++++++


Can anyone shed any light on the birthplace factory of this brand?

Frenchy, Corsair, Hendrik, Barry, boutjp97, Dan, grogg, Steve - c'mon guys.

Thanks in advance,
Ian

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 8543n5m_20

This is a pic from the vendor.


Last edited by anaerobe on Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Frenchy Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:26 pm

Hi Ian,

This is all that I know so far on this brand. From the offerings that I have seen in the last few years, the Raven brand is more concentrated in Ontario, Can... I do come across some in Quebec but never any first owners... I would assume this is a Ontario distributor brand name. I came across a semi hollow bass indentical to Aria's offering of the time period but missed out on the purchase... This bass is also a little confusing.... It has the small tuners and also that TRC that I was only able to find on "Pan" Basses and several Ibanez bass like model 2366B... The Brand Raven could have came from many different sources since some had a plastic badge on the headstock, where others had inlays and some had printed logos.... Hard to pin point these house brands...

Sorry, no help really from my part for the origin...

On the 2nd topic: GAS.... BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_biggrin

If this is an ealy Fujigen Gakki (Ibanez) it's a great deal at that price and it will play really great!.... I would jump on it if you do not have a P-bass in your arsenal...

My 2 cents...

P. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_pirat
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Post by anaerobe Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:37 pm

Thanks Pierre.

Good info wrt to size of the tuners. At minimum I can track down the models you refer to and do a rudimentary comparison. The bass that I found has the logo as inlay IIRC.

The GAS gods will be appeased.. I looked at it yesterday (it plays great), and have arranged to buy it tomorrow. I have to sell my BC Rich to make some room. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_biggrin


All the best,
Ian

P.S. Some quick sleuthing results reveal that the 1976 Ibanez 2366B (below) has the same headstock, logo placement, same MIJ backplate, mounts for chrome bridge cover, sunburst effect details, headstock hardware (except the 2366B tuners are larger), etc.

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 2366BbackplateMIJ

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 2366Bheadstocklogo

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 19762366B_2


This last pic is a 2366f, to show the chrome bridge covers. The pic above shows the mount screws, no cover.
The Raven has those mounts as well.

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 2366f1


Last edited by anaerobe on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Frenchy Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:08 pm

The GAS gods will be appeased.. I looked at it yesterday (it plays great), and have arranged to buy it tomorrow. I have to sell my BC Rich to make some room. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_biggrin

You wont regret it! BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_biggrin

I also have a B.C. Rich for sale at the moment... BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_lol I bought it for the look and never played with it...

Congrats on the new bass!

Pierre

The earlier 70's Ibanez bass had the small tuners...
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Post by Barry Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:13 pm

I don't play or own any basses so I'm as much help to you as teats on a bull.
Luckily, we have Pierre around, eh?
She's real purty Ian!

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Post by anaerobe Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:48 pm

Well, all of you make a terrific resource. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_study BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_cheers
Thanks again! Will post pics when I bring it home.
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Post by Warrn Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:25 pm

Awww, you decided to buy it before I could come in here and sell you on it! I've already sold one Ian on a bass (a 1984 Electra-Westone Phoenix X635 in Pearl White), a second would have been funny.
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Post by anaerobe Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:27 pm

You could try to sell me on "Zero Wing" as a compromise. Then all your base.... oh well, you get the idea. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_lol
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Post by Warrn Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:31 pm

You'd have to be a pretty big fan of old video games to like Zero Wing. Beyond the infamously poor translation, anyway. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_lol
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Post by Frenchy Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:24 am

Hi Ian,

I did some more verification. I had done some research 3 to 4 years ago on Raven, my file shows that the brand is from Great West Dist. They had 4 offices across Canada (Montreal, T.O., Winnipeg and B.C.) They carried and distributed Pearl guitars, Mann and Raven... Since some of the Mann from the 70's are clearly Fujigen (Ibanez) I would consider this a good sign...

I have a Raven catalogue somewhere from the 70's... will try to find it...

P.
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Post by anaerobe Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:03 am

Pierre,

That would be HIGHLY appreciated. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_smile Great information - you are a researcher at heart. Busy day so far - I sold and delivered the BC Rich bass at 9:00 am, drove about 3 miles, and bought the Raven at 9:08. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_lol I brought her (the Raven) home - then had to rush off to work... but I will attack it this evening.

The putative link to Fujigen is really interesting to me.

This bass is missing a few things - thumb rest (plastic black brick that screws to the pick guard), the chrome pup cover, and the chrome bridge cover. I am keeping my eyes open for those parts.

Other than that, its a pretty sweet little bass - playability is great, way easier than the BC Rich.

Edit: This next paragraph was pulled off "guitars for beginners", seems to confirm your research:

That was a tough one bear with me here, here's a little bit of info about the Raven guitar, the Mann Guitar and the Raven Guitar were as far as I know made in Japan in the same place some were labeled Mann some were labeled Raven and imported to Canada there's a question mark on whether Matsumoku made them and there is also a rumour that Ibanez were behind them but this is hard to confirm apparently the early ones were awesome but the quality dipped a bit in the later models. I've put a load of Reviews on for the Mann guitar/Raven Guitar one of the reviewers collects these and has both Ravens and Manns,

Mann and Raven Guitars were labeled and imported to Canada by "Great West Musical Imports" of Vancouver BC in the 70's and 80's. There were a huge success and these low cost but fair to good quality Guitars are still seen in the marketplace regularly today.


Edit 2: This old catalogue is online, but I will need to register to see it. Useful, in that it mentions Great West as the Raven distributor. OK, back to work. BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Icon_lol

http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs_japanese_raven.htm



Warrn,

Watching the intro to Zero Wing reminded me of the 80's Sega Genesis stuff, which required imaginative input from the player - itself not a bad thing.

So far, I'm pleased with my new acquisition, its clearly made to a higher standard than the BC Rich (scarf neck join, etc).
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Post by Frenchy Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:43 pm

Thanks for posting your findings Ian... Never found that info in the past...

Here is the catalogue that I found years ago online... I do not remember were it came from...

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven1.th
BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven2.th
BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven3.th
BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven4.th
BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven5.th
BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC 02raven6.th


P.
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Post by anaerobe Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:37 pm

Follow up - I've had this bass for a week and I am loving it. It plays great with new Rotosound swing bass strings (stainless). The youngest offspring and I are eyeballing some new bass amps ("Dad, we really need a decent bass amp"), and really, who can argue with that logic? So far I'm cottoning on to the Fender Rumble 100 with 2 x 10" speakers. No pics of the Raven yet, too much fun just to play it. Laughing

Warrn and Frenchy - what bass amps do you favour?
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Post by Warrn Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:46 am

You can't go wrong with a Hartke. I have a 350w Hartke 3500 hooked to a big 300w Hartke MX115 cabinet. I really need a 410 to go with it, but it's solid and reliable and constantly threatens to shake my house down (I'm thinking it might be a bit easier to handle if I split the signal between two cabinets, but I'm not an amp expert).
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Post by Hublocker Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:16 pm

I'd love to hear more about Ravens.

I have two, a fretless and a fretted. They are identical to the one pictured except that they have two pickups.

On both of them, the neck pickup went dead.

I got the first one 2nd hand in 1976 and the other at a local guitar shop about 8 years ago.

Nice necks, heavy bodies and the one pickup really puts out!

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Post by anaerobe Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:37 pm

Hey - good to hear from you!

Are you in Canada somewhere?

How about putting up a couple of pictures?? cyclops My bass is still going strong, but the pots are scratchy, gotta fix that.

Ian
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Post by Hublocker Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:58 am

I'm in Vancouver.

My fretless has been stripped and carved and painted.

The fretted is pretty well stock except for a replaced fret marker. I used an old driver's licence. One tuning peg handle broke off so I got a watch repair man to modify a brass clock winder for that one peg.

My post pics tomorrow.
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Post by anaerobe Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:09 pm

That would be great.

I should also get round to posting some detailed pics of my Raven bass. This thread has already a great source of info on Raven stuff imported from Great West Distributing.

In the past year, I have found a number of other brands with this connection, including Mann. A couple of nice tube amps in the 20 watt range have passed through auctions in Kijiji (Winnipeg) with the brand "Mann", and were reputed to be made for Great West by either Garnet (the same local builder as equipped The Guess Who) or Traynor (out of Toronto). I am not sure of this, just relaying the stuff I've heard in local shops. (EDIT: I found some evidence (on the site below) that Mann was indeed connected to Garnet. If anyone can find one of these for sale, you would have yourself a really nice kicking amp for not a lot of $$).

"Garnet amps" per se are still represented by a couple of websites... here is one:

http://www.garnetamps.com/

...their inventor was a guy named Gar Gilles, another Winnipeg lad. Interesting - I learned that some of his original amps parts (eg, mushroom knobs) were sourced from Japan. Garnet's "Herzog" amp circuit and amp of the same model name were responsible for the distinctive "American Woman" tone heard on the lead of that song, as played by R. Bachman. A book on how these amps were put together is published and available here:

http://www.garnetamps.com/book.htm

Kind of a cool piece of Canadian music history. Many old Garnet amps are still floating around Winnipeg (and still functioning).

Ian
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Post by Hublocker Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:43 pm

My Raven fretted bass:

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Basses2011010

My Raven fretless (with an Ibanez-made "JWalkers" branded guitar)


BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Basses2011003

The neck of the fretted (see the driver's licence fret marker?)

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Basses2011008

Carved body of the fretless (it was the 1970s okay? forgive me)


BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC Basses2011005

My Raven (made by Garnet) amp

BASS - Raven Bass - (Ibanez 2366 lookalike) UPDATE INFO WITH PIC February2010033

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Post by anaerobe Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:12 pm

Nice!!! cheers

I love those basses, and the AMP!!! Cool Cool
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Post by Hublocker Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:25 pm

Thanks.
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Post by Steve777 Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 pm

Yup, like that carved retro look. Very nice. Always wanted an Aria dragon carved strat just for its quirkiness but never found one. Anyone get to play one?
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Post by corsair Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:07 am

I think Jesper's either got one, or has access to one? Can't imagine it being too much different to a Strat; maybe a bit heavier?
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Post by Westbone Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:45 am

Thought you 'Ravens' might want to hover over this.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Raven-MIJ-Les-Paul-Recording-Late-70s-Bolt-Neck-/310298989588?pt=Guitar&hash=item483f42d414
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Post by anaerobe Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:28 am

That's a tasty dish - actually a very beautiful instrument indeed - somehow it made its way down to California. I cannot believe the starting price on it however. scratch These Japanese LP clones are steadily climbing in price, their factory genetics notwithstanding. The pickups and switches are unique, pretty funky.

EDIT: ??? Looking again the backing wood looks like the wrong grain for mahogany - much more like walnut, ash or even cherry. Whatever it is, it is nicely constructed - quite a sleeper.

The RAVEN headstock insignia is very similar to that appearing on my bass. That bass sports a MOP (or MO toilet) inlay - I've heard that the insignia also appeared on instruments as a sticker. Another similarity is the neck plate - very plain with "Made in Japan" along the bottom edge.

This guitar looks superficially similar to my GRANADA LP - the bolt-on neck is virtually identical, bound the same way, same inlay type. In some reading I did on the GARNET site yesterday, I found out that the MIJ Granada stuff has another link to Winnipeg. Interestingly, Mr. Garnet Gilles made amps in his Winnipeg shop with the "Granada" stencil, in addition to Gibson (USA) amps, Simpson-Sears stuff, etc. Garnet's shop cranked out around 30 "stencil brands" in all. Lots of these no-name beauties are circulating around the Northern Prairies. Cool Cool


Last edited by anaerobe on Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:48 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : schpelling)
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Post by Hublocker Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:20 pm

Lots of Garnet "Stencil" brands in BC too.

Mine is labeled "Raven."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvJljlr_8g0
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