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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:00 am

So I’m going to give it a go with the switchmaster knob.

Mine is from a pantera and does not have the alan screw.

Also smaller than I remember...

Questions;
Does someone have one with the screw they would be willing to loan.
Is making it from aluminum okay?

I can anodize and dye them black, or any color for that matter...

I will look at what it will take to make them out of resin or plastic injection...

Opinions??


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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:02 am

This is what black anodizing looks like on the string lock. I have a few ideas on the white dot, especially if it’s aluminum...

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Post by Barry on Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:37 am

What an ambitious fellow you are. Good on ya! Coffee Drinker

IIRC there were a few iterations of the Switchmaster, but the originals were aluminum (or at least light metal of some sort) so making them out of aluminum would not be out of line historically.

Plastic push-fit knobs were cheaper to make so they became the norm, however there is the possibility of slipping on a push-pull pot if not installed very snug on the shaft. From that perspective the set screw would perhaps offer a more secure lock.

That said, a set screw ideally needs a solid shaft for optimum hold and to prevent a lopsided fit. Otherwise the more common split shaft would need a filler in the space.

A plastic (resin) version would also likely need some sort of knurling or ribbed pattern on the  the internal diameter to assist in gripping the shaft.

I guess you go with whatever manufacturing process best suits you Don\'t Know

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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:57 pm

Are the dimensions the same for both knobs?
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Post by Slicepack on Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:50 pm

Mine don't have the allen screw.
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Post by Barry on Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:20 pm

knicelyr wrote:Are the dimensions the same for both knobs?
The membership will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but I would expect them to be very close if not identical. The important measurement would be the internal diameter (over the pot shaft) which should be standard and constant. Anything on the outside (of any knob) is really cosmetic.

A set screw version allows for more tolerance, which might be helpful in the case of a hardware change from the original pots. The push fit of course, less so.

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Post by corsair on Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:47 am

Yeah, mate - my metal ones are the same as the plastic ones, near as dammit.
I've got a spare knob with a set screw you can use, Rick.... I'll fire it your way when I get into town.

*edit* my metal ones are non-ferrous, so either pot metal or aluminium....

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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:26 am

That’s awesome Smile
Thank you

I see a circular pattern on some that are not on the one from my pantera.

Fun stuff!
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Post by godjira on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:53 am



Cast in resin you say? On my list of things to do.
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Post by knicelyr on Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:28 pm

That is super cool!
Very similar to how I made my molds, I am going to see what kind of resin he is using for the plastic ones...
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Post by corsair on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:00 pm

Wesley!! I've been watching his stuff for years!! Clever man...

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Post by Barry on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:50 pm

godjira wrote:...Cast in resin you say? On my list of things to do.
Excellent! Very nicely done.

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Post by knicelyr on Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:38 pm

I ordered some of that resin...
Is the white dot recessed and then painted?
Or is is somehow molded in?
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Post by godjira on Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:42 am

That resin doesn't seem to be available in the UK. I will do some more research to see what a local equivalent would be. afaik the dot is paint
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Post by Westbone on Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:58 am

The dot is an indentation.

Easy to paint a dot but for ease i use this on any knob needing a dot. Paint pen.
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Post by Westbone on Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:23 am

godjira wrote:That resin doesn't seem to be available in the UK. I will do some more research to see what a local equivalent would be. afaik the dot is paint
There's loads of casting resin on ebay UK. Smile
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Post by Westbone on Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:58 am

Here's the metal knob with set screw.
Switchmaster knob 20191011
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See no reason why a set screw could not be tapped in a resin knob. No need for any splines.
If set with the screw in line with the split in the pot shaft they tighten up fine. No problems.
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:38 am

Looks like the same but in metal.

Would the measurement in the pic above be correct for the set screw?

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Post by Westbone on Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:42 am

knicelyr wrote:

Would the measurement in the pic above be correct for the set screw?
 
Yep 7mm to the centre
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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:03 pm

First attempt at resin.
Not too bad but I need some air vents in the mold, or make the bottom solid and drill it out...

Barry,
Did you say there might be a spline cutting tool?

The spline is molded in but may be a little loose...

May be better to drill and spline it...
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Post by knicelyr on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:11 pm

The other issue I have is that my knob has some marks on it that transferred into the mold.

I have one in route from Corsair so I may use that one for both aluminum and resin replicas.

However I would really like to use a plastic one for the one to be made in resin.

So... shout out to anyone that has one that has a clean top, that would be willing to let me use it for the master mold.
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Post by Barry on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:59 pm

knicelyr wrote:...
Barry,
Did you say there might be a spline cutting tool?
If you're referring to the comment about "ribs" on the internal diameter of the knob, I'm not aware of anything in particular. Not sure what could be used to cut those in, it's a bit of a PITA. Perhaps something heated and pushed into the interior wall diameter rather than cut in?

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Post by Westbone on Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:57 am

The plastic knobs have an insert glued in the bottom which has the spline.

It's obvious when looking at the bottom of the knob.

Why not cast the spline from an old pot, drill the new ones and glue them in.

If  I can find an insert I'll send a photo.
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Post by knicelyr on Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:43 am

That’s a good idea!
I did a cast of the back of the knob and that seems to be working, but I will not know for sure until I have one cast in aluminum.

Hope this weekend.
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Post by Barry on Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 am

Westbone wrote:The plastic knobs have an insert glued in the bottom which has the spline...
Why not cast the spline from an old pot, drill the new ones and glue them in.
I forgot about that insert. Thumb Up

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Post by knicelyr on Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:37 am

Okay,
I think I have the resin ones down.
I’m molding in the spline.
My knob has some wear marks that are coming out on the copy...
John is sending me the metal one so I hope that I can make a better mold. Excited to see what one is these looks like in black anodized aluminum!

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Post by corsair on Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:39 pm

knicelyr wrote:I have one in route from Corsair so I may use that one for both aluminum and resin replicas.

No, you don't! You have a plastic one with a set screw en route from me - my metal ones are push on jobs; they have a plastic central boss that is splined....

A tool for making splines is a broaching tool, I think...

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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:06 am

Oh okay,
But it still has the set screw and hopefully a better surface than mine did.
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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:12 am

Fantastic work guys! 
I didn't see this thread for some reason, great to see some irreplaceable parts being remade again!
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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:52 pm

Having a go at aluminum.
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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:56 pm

Fantastic! 
They look good enough to eat!
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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:19 pm

They look like lil Rolo or Reece’s peanut butter cups!
Lol
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Post by knicelyr on Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:45 pm

Okay,
Not a complete success...
Bees wax, very Smokey and sooty
Vacuum did not pull quick enough and also ran out of aluminum in the well when it did...

I lost over 1/2 of them Sad

Only one didn’t not fill the spline area with aluminum... which is okay and might be the way to go anyhow...

2 or three of these might also get tossed Sad

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Post by NeilH on Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:14 pm

Would you be inclined to sell some of your cast-aluminum ones? I have an X199 that is missing its original knobs. You wouldn't have to do any finish work at all - I'd take 'em as-is off the vine. I can finish them on my lathe.


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Post by The Chad on Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Thanks again for doing this, very satisfying to watch!
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Post by knicelyr on Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:55 pm

Neil,
Yes I can send some to you,
These ones have defects...
John is sending me an original one to work from.

How many do you need?
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Post by NeilH on Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:43 am

knicelyr wrote:Neil,
Yes I can send some to you,
These ones have defects...
John is sending me an original one to work from.

How many do you need?


Three. My X199 is my only Westone that had those knobs.


What's your price for them?

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Post by knicelyr on Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:06 pm

I haven’t really thought about a price, and you will be doing the rest of the work with your tools.

Are you going to paint them?
If so these might work for you just have to fill the imperfections...
Or you can wait till I have Johns knob and copy it...

My goal is to make enough to have punch dies made for the string locks.
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Post by corsair on Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:27 pm

Punch dies would be mega!

I've sent the knob on without the OEM square BMD lockplate as I can't find the bloody thing!!

Rick, you gotta charge something, mate - even to cover your expenses; no-one's expecting this sort of thing for nothing, eh!!


(Well.... I am, but I'm a notoriously cheap bastard!) Laughing Rolling Eyes

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Post by Sgt. Vimes on Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:23 pm

Johns right, he is a cheap bastard Very Happy Very Happy
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Post by NeilH on Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:42 pm

knicelyr wrote:I haven’t really thought about a price, and you will be doing the rest of the work with your tools.

Are you going to paint them?
If so these might work for you just have to fill the imperfections...
Or you can wait till I have Johns knob and copy it...

My goal is to make enough to have punch dies made for the string locks.
Well think of a price. Free is awesome, but John is right about covering your expenses. I can't confirm that he's a cheap bastard, but I'm willing to take his word on that.

Ideally I'd anodize them, but I may blacken them chemically (Birchwood Casey Aluminum Black). Last option is to paint them.  I don't have an anodizing setup yet, so painting is most likely in the short-term.


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Post by knicelyr on Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:08 am

Well eventually I would like to charge, but while I work this stuff out I feel like the "beta" tester or those helping out should have some benefit too, maybe at cost or something...

My goal with this is to put any money right back into something that will let us make other parts.  Cad drawings, 3D printer, Press Punch etc...

"Beta" versions are those that I don't think are quite there, like the knobs, there are some imperfections, partially from the original part and from the process.   The issues related to the process I can fix for the most part.  The original part I may or may not be able to do anything about.

Neil,
I have the ability to anodize these in any color, and I have black on hand.  However that will not deal with the "scratch" that you can see in the face of some of them. Painting would because you could fill those spots.  I am happy to anodize the three best ones for you, dye them black and send them your way. I would ask that you continue this thread with the work you do to finish them up... Deal?

I'm a cheap bastard too btw... LOL

I've had a lot of help from the forum too I'm happy to give back Smile
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Post by knicelyr on Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:15 am

Back to anodizing...
Very VERY easy...

I picked up a DC power supply that allows me to adjust the amperage and voltage. (some use a battery charger).  You put the part in a bath of weak sulfuric acid and put a positive charge on the part. Part=Positive.  And then the negative goes to the "Plate" in my case I just used an aluminum pan so that the whole pan holding the acid is the "Plate". After the time being anodized, there is a formula..., you just soak it in the heated dye until you get the color you want.  Then you boil it for about an hour to seal it back up.  Btw... you don't have to put any color to it, you can just keep it raw anodized... Still have to do the boil though.

I can start a new thread on that when I do the next batch if there is any interest, maybe these knobs?
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Post by corsair on Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:29 pm

That is very cool, and yes; there is interest, Rick!!

Bring it on!!

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Post by NeilH on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:30 pm

knicelyr wrote:Well eventually I would like to charge, but while I work this stuff out I feel like the "beta" tester or those helping out should have some benefit too, maybe at cost or something...

My goal with this is to put any money right back into something that will let us make other parts.  Cad drawings, 3D printer, Press Punch etc...

"Beta" versions are those that I don't think are quite there, like the knobs, there are some imperfections, partially from the original part and from the process.   The issues related to the process I can fix for the most part.  The original part I may or may not be able to do anything about.

Neil,
I have the ability to anodize these in any color, and I have black on hand.  However that will not deal with the "scratch" that you can see in the face of some of them. Painting would because you could fill those spots.  I am happy to anodize the three best ones for you, dye them black and send them your way. I would ask that you continue this thread with the work you do to finish them up... Deal?

I'm a cheap bastard too btw... LOL

I've had a lot of help from the forum too I'm happy to give back Smile

Just leave them raw. I look forward to finishing them.  I'll certainly post my finishing work.

Neil
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Post by knicelyr on Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:58 pm

Neil,
Send me a PM with your address and I’ll get them off to you.
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Post by challpa on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:48 am

knicelyr wrote:
Or you can wait till I have Johns knob and copy it...


LOL anybody want one (sorry childish I know but couldnt help myself)  Laughing


Last edited by challpa on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by knicelyr on Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:53 am

Lol...  So I DID phrase that correctly ??  lol
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Post by corsair on Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:29 pm

Yes, yes.... nothing to see here.... move along....



Laughing Laughing Laughing lol!

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corsair
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Number of posts : 6037
Age : 60
Location : Takura, Australia.
Registration date : 2008-04-08

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